Talk Morgan Forums Community Vehicle Talk (non-Morgan) One & Done?

A friend bought an Interceptor Convertible. He needed to get it out of his system. It absolutely gobbled fuel, in the 8-12mpg zone. And it didn't feel that impressive to ride in.

On frosty mornings, my Glibern only managed 12mpg, and 60 miles on five gallons isn't funny. The carb icing didn't help.

Funny you should post that. I have a 'Volvo station wagon' and very good it is (V60 T8 PHEV), warmer more comfortable and quicker than my 1956 Plus 4. If I was really pushed then I'm afraid it would be the Mog that would go first. It's good fun, has introduced me to a different social circle and events, but it isn't as practical as the Volvo.

Oh, that wasn't meant personally, just an example of a very good modern car. We have a Mercedes station wagon, probably very comparable to your Volvo. And of course the Morgan would have to go if I had the choice between these two.

Heinz, I'm sure it wasn't. Like all choices it's horses for courses. I prefer to go to our noggins and other local Morgan events in the Mog, but this time of the year it is tucked away in the garage and up on blocks. Also my wife wouldn't appreciate being in an open top car with no heater in the cold wet weather we have been having.

TBM, talking of going round corners t would bethe Elan +2 big valve that I had . Beautiful and so enjoyable.

I can imagine! It appears these days that every tom, dick and harry can go really fast in a straightline, especially in their Musk Floats, but most seem to lack the ability to drive round corners.

I find there is much pleasure in driving a slow car quickly. I have driven a Porsche C4S but as mentioned previously in this thread I found it a bit boring and predictable.

Not sure which C4S you drove but I've noticed Porsche, and the same can be said of most car makers, dial the 'error protection' up and hence, the unpredictability and (some would say) involvement / driving feel down. I remember having a conversation with Porsche guru Richard Tuthill where he said to me that the tail happy reputation the 911 had was unwarranted and generally came from poorly set up cars or equally poor driving. Nevertheless, Porsche themselves obviously took this (general reputation) to heart and have work tirelessly to make the 911 handle predictably and I would go as far as to say, in many cases, flatter and protect unskilled drivers. A modern 911, specifically a 4WD version, made even greater with the four wheel steering, feels like it can bend physics to the drivers will. They flatter even the most inept driver (I'm raising my hand at this point, not pointing a finger at others) and the problem with this is that along with their immense competency comes a similar level of predictability. To many, this can be seen as dull and truth be told, in my past experience, you need to be driving at licence loosing speeds for the car to really feel alive. Nevertheless, and as I mentioned at the start, Porsche are not immune to this, Mercedes, Audi, Ferrari, etc, have all dialled safety up (and rightly so) but at the expense of what drivers often call 'feel'. A fair price to pay when so many road users are driving on autopilot and really not paying proper care an attention? Perhaps. However, it does make it a struggle for me to make a modern sports car a One & Done.

Personally I like a car that has personality - and by this I don't mean issues that rose tinted owners call 'personality' - I mean a car that has dimensions to it that unfold as you use it more and get to know it. Not a snappy unpredictable car but one that flatters you when you drive it well but also gives you a little nod when you don't. Probably a very challenging blend in a modern car and why very few modern vehicles are being mentioned on this topic.

And DaveW, I agree that the Jensen's poor mpg would get tiring quickly; furthermore, that perhaps it would underwhelm. In defence of it, I did post a link to the resto modded version with modern LS2 engine, overhauled (modern) suspension, etc, but I'm sure it would still be 'compromised.' And, perhaps that this the nub of it, there is always a compromise with cars, hence the justification for more than one?

The C4S was brand new at the time, but was about 20 years ago. It did everything perfectly, and as you said lacked that little 'frission' of unpredicability (and I took it over some fairly challenging roads - Tregaron to Rhayader via Cwmystwyth, down to Beulah and then back across the Abergwesyn Rd).

In fairness, my mate found it a little boring too, and soon chopped it in for a GT3RS which was a little more exciting.

My partners electric VW Golf has blistering acceleration, but is completely dull and boring in every other aspect, even when I spend the first 5 minutes turning off all the 'driver aids'. However, every drive in the Morgan and MG starts and ends in a grin, and often an occasional bum clench

A short excursion into the world of 911 driving physics.

The Porsche 911 is indeed a kind of special case in automotive history. A special case because the basic concept has survived for so long, and it has had to repeatedly and increasingly face stricter safety requirements and at the same time less and less intuitive drivers.
That an (old school) 911 should have always been a controllable car for the ambitious mass driver is simply not true. No matter how wonderfully smart the suspension was set up.

The laws of physics can only be appeased, but they cannot be overcome. Within a certain range below the limit, a Porsche feels like the safest car in the world...what incredible traction and tracking, what great possibilities when accelerating out of a corner. Some drivers felt like a hero when they stayed within the limits. I'm still talking about the old school 911.

Here in the video below we see an old school Porsche in the snow. This particular 911 from 1972 has a much more balanced weight distribution than a production 911 from that era. So I'm using an example that weakens, not strengthens, my arguments for the dangerousness of the 911. On the other hand, the driver explains really well what the old school 911 is all about, and he is really good at the wheel.



The thing that is very specific to the 911 is the relatively small range of lateral movement when drifting. Good drivers can work their magic within this range. But if the cornering angle is even one degree more exaggerated then nobody on this planet can catch a 911 again. And because this moment can happen so quickly if the driver is not aware of the limit situation, it is almost always too late. The modern driving aids ensure that this angle is not reached. If it is reached, it is also too late for the modern driving aids.

In the following video you can see in minutes 3:00, 4:30 and 6:00 the typical response of physics to driving errors even in the most modern 911.



You can see that the 911 always turns a large circle around the front end, so it needs much more space on the track or road than a normal car and that alone almost always leads to very serious accidents. Since the engine sits behind the rear axle

Minute 6:00 is particularly impressive because at first you think, thank God he caught the car. But at the end you can see how much energy is still stored to suddenly whirl the car around with a single blow.
And if there weren't 100 digital and servomotor-controlled driving assistants on the modern 911 today, then the modern 911 would have the same fate as the old 911. The modern 911 protects the driver from the physics of his car even before reaching the limit. That's why it's so boring to drive, but also less dangerous. It's like marrying the hottest cat in the world, but she turns off the lights on your wedding night.

I'm not saying all this to spoil the fun, I still have a 1976 Porsche myself. But I wanted to counter some false myths. A 911 remains a 911, it's an icon and that's why it's still successful in the market and it's tuned for a lot of stupid inexperienced new younger drivers these days. To make matters worse, my 1976 911, for example, had 165 hp to 1.1 tons, but today 500 hp and more meets the same weight distribution design.

Two of the great car brands are German Porsche and Mercedes. I wish I could find the article again, one of the US car magazines in the 80's held a road ace with different cars from Mercedes, Porsche. Ferrari etc with many of the great racing drivers of the day, across a varied course including mountains and the surprising winner against out and out true sports cars like the 911 was an automatic Mercedes SL500, I believe driven by Fittiipaldi.

The short wheel base 911 were a bit if a handful and certainly the 930 turbo's could put you through a hedgerow backwards before you knew it.

The most endearing feature of a 911 is that unlike many other sport cars from famous stables, as long as they are regularly serviced they are utterly reliable, not temperamental and can be used as a daily hack.