Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 UK driving licence changes

Firstly - anyone who currently holds a full UK licence for group B (car) is 'grandfathered' so you will still be able to drive one.

But, are you aware that three wheelers on 19th Jan 2013 dive into the motorcycle group? And because nearly all Morgan three wheelers exceed 15kW (just over 20 BHP) that puts them in group A, not a subgroup.

So any son or daughter wanting to drive your trike had better pass their car test before 19 January 2013, or otherwise they'll be mired in multiple bike tests. And if they take and pass the bike tests at the earliest possible dates I think that means 21 would be the youngest, as I think 24 is the direct access route.

Northern Ireland rules, there is not a currect English version, but the basic situation should be the same.

Issue is in the current MTWC magazine, and I don't mind admitting I thought I'd found a get out, but I was wrong.

Interesting changes, I guess rooted in the accident/fatality rates for younger bike riders.

Whilst I can sympathise with your frustration Martyn, I'm more inclined to ask why is there no tired access to cars for young drivers as well. Given the accident statistics for young drivers, the effect on insurance premiums, etc. learning road craft in limited power vehicles at 17 before being given full access at 24 seems quite reasonable to me

Did i not somewhere, that it is REBORN Bikers (40yrs +) that are more likely to have an accident on a Road Bike.

It's a result of an EC directive. So doubtless tiered access for cars is on someone agenda (especially now you've mentioned it ) , even though it's restricted by the need for insurance.

My Morgan is hardly powerful, yet like pretty well all vintage ones, will fall into the more than 15kw (20bhp) group along with the 180mph motorbikes.

A young person will have to take the CBT, then two tiered bike driving tests and wait till 21 or wait till 24 and go the direct access route. All to drive a car that might do 80mph flat out. Most standard vintage Morgans are slower.

But, the ability to ride a motorbike confers no ability to drive a Morgan three wheeler and that I'm sure was behind the fact that in 2000, the folk who passed a full bike test were no longer given driving licence group B1 (all vintage Morgan three wheelers and a few others).

There is no sign of any of this, but really the sensible outcome would be for the government to declare all car bodied three wheelers as cars - thus needing a group B (car) driving licence.

I find your faith that those who love telling us all what to do know what they're doing is touching. I'm often suspicious of the motives of those in Brussels and Westminster; I'm certainly sceptical that there is any evidence to suggest that 3 wheeler drivers have seen a sudden worrying increase in accident stats. Maybe it's more likely that it's the easiest way to oblige drivers of 3 wheelers to wear crash helmets - put them into the motorcycle category.

Cast your mind back to the 90's to european commissioner Herr Bangemann's determined efforts to limit the maximum horsepower of all motorcycles to 100 BHP despite a complete lack of statistical evidence that a bike with, say, 125 bhp is inherently more dangerous than one with 100 bhp. In the end Bangemann was forced to back down by a vote of the european parliament - the first time an unelected commissioner had been made to bend before the will of the elected body. At the time, no BMW motorcycle produced more than 100 horses, and the suspicion was that the commissioner had been encouraged by the bavarians in order to limit the attraction of japanese machines, although it would have had serious impact on Triumph and Ducati. For Triumph it would have been catastrophic as a large part of their range had outputs above the limit. I heard a story that John Bloor (boss of Triumph) told the chairman of BMW that if the ruling succeeded, he would not rest until the same principle of limiting power output was applied to cars too - what's sauce for the goose and so on.

May be Dean, perhaps because in the main they are the group who can afford to buy and insure the current range of super-bikes?

I took my bike test in my 30s (CBT and two tier test route) so not really a born again biker, more a need to find out what I was missing. I believe it made me a much better driver, far more aware of other road users, road conditions, etc. I gave it up after nearly being wiped out twice in a fortnight at a local roundabout by others, who when entering the roundabout, either genuinely didn't see me (charitable and I think not) or more probably saw me and didn't care!

I have a full bike licence and my last machine was a Z1100 twenty five years ago.

I was recently prevented from taking a test drive on a motorbike as 'I hadn't ridden a bike for more than three years'.

Whilst I was a bit miffed at the time, it was probably a sensible policy from the bike shop.

Also my wife said she'd divorce me if I got a bike. Win win.

After 35 years on two wheelers I gave it up nearly 3 years ago - mainly due to the antics of blind imbeciles in tin boxes. OK, the ever increasing width of vehicle screen pillars doesn't help, but once people are sitting in their tintop they don't seem capable of moving sufficiently to see around said pillars.
One of our local IAM m/c groups has lost a couple of full members in the last 18 months, due to impatient who couldn't look properly.

Mind, some of the antics modern motorcyclists perform also leave me cold .

Pandy - Agreed, you're post is probably far nearer the point re the political mashinations, but I retain my view that today a tired entry to young driver access to cars and bikes is still valid, at least on the heavily populated UK roads.

Martyn - Agreed there is limited correlation between the road skills needed for a bike and three wheeler, and the powers that be haven't got it right in this area. Although, it has always been a bit of a odd relationship between bikes and three wheelers re licensing and road tax. Fortunately, there must be very limited numbers of younger drivers out there desperate to get behind the wheel of a vintage Morgan three wheeler. Perhaps it would be clearer if all three wheelers were classed as cars, regardless of weight, power, etc.

There's a good article on motorcycle accident statistics here:

http://www.bikelawyer.co.uk/bike-accident-statistics

I agree with those up-thread who say that that the biggest threat on the road to mature, sensible motorcyclists is the myopic car driver.