Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms 4/4 engine conversion

Hi everyone,

I'm rebuilding a 1996, 4/4 with a 1.8 zetec engine, the engine has done about 80k, so while I'm straightening out the bodywork ( ie removing as much filler as possible!, lol) I thought I'd rebuild the engine or would it be a good idea to upgrade it, to say an 2.0L ST170 spec engine?
Would this enhance or detract from it's value if I came to sell it later on or is originality the way to go?
Cheers
Martin

Probably won't make any difference to the value Martin. Certainly won't increase it, but it may put some potential future buyers off if not original spec...
Then again, it's a Morgan, what's original???

Oh, Welcome to the forum BTW.

I'd agree with Graham...and welcome.

Welcome to the forum. All Morgan (and plenty of other) questions answered here.

I am having the same thoughts regarding my 4/4, a CVH, (a) do I go for a bored-out CVH, (b) do I replace with a 2.0lt Zetec etc etc. and have been advised by others and I have come to the conclusion as Graham.

If you intend to keep the Morgan for some time I would suggest the upgrade to ST170, otherwise every time you drive the Morgan you will be thinking "I wonder what it would go like with that bigger engine "

Martin,

Welcome to TM and the world of Morgans

I went for the original 1600 CVH motor but with increased power, (thanks CerealSurfer) and it should be in by end of June.

With the older Morgans, when you lift the bonnets, no two seem to be the same so I agree with Graham "Who knows whats original"

The more up to date the engine the more modern electric stuff to go wrong I like it nice and easy . No mod gismo's to confuse the simple mind .
Welcome .

The Zetec is tuneable...I'd have it rebuilt and tuned up myself.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the warm welcome.
I spoke to Mogsport about this, they say it's a lot more work than swapping an the engine as you'd expect. It's the electrics that are the main issue, having to have a standalone ecu adds about a £1000+ onto the bill plus buying the engine.
With the original engine, it also seems rebuilding your own engine to standard isn't all that economical, I can't seem to rebuild one myself cheaper than an engine reconditioner can!
Unless you guys know something I don't?
Cheers
Martin

Hi Jay,

What can you do tune them at reasonable cost?

Martin

Much of the answer probably depends on the level of performance you want out of it, and how deep your pockets are. If you're after a useful increase in power and torque but don't want to go mad and spend loads of money, then a 2.0l Zetec engine will run very happily using a CVH carb, and will give around 130-135bhp.

There's no need to be wary of ECUs, millions of cars use them and do millions of miles with no issues. The great thing with them is that if you want to know exactly what's going on in your engine, just plug in your laptop and have a look!

My 4/4 is running a 1.8 Z18XER engine (used in Zafiras and Astras). It has an aftermarket MBE ECU programmed by John Ravenscroft (TVR) and gives around 170bhp.

Maybe I should go back to TVRs...
(Where's the 'wash my mouth out soapy' smiley ).

That 2.0L ST170 spec engine certainly looks interesting. I googled for it and came up with this:

http://www.fordst170.co.uk/specs.php

126 kW (170PS) at 7000rpm and 195Nm of torque from 2500rpm
By comparison the Morgan 2.0l Plus 4 is
106 kw (145 bhp) @ 6000 rpm 187Nm (140 lb/ft)

Hi Max, I would have a look at throttle bodies. I am just doing a standard throttle body kit for 1.8 zetec engines. This will make it a very good engine and will improve the performance no end.....

Cheers

Henry

Took the very words out of my mouth Henry !

Tell us more......

Yes, I'm sure many of us with the 1.8 Zetec - note the silvertop and blacktop engines differ considerably - would be pleased to know of reliable, worhtwhile improvements to the engine.

A TB conversion presumably requires an additional ECU, and completely different induction routing?

Have ST170 in my car. It is quick, engine is very strong (steel rods), Fast road cams are good modification. Downside is it is hard to transplant in terms of ECU. The 2.3 litre Duratec would be my choice if I were to change engines.

Sprinty. What do you think of the Cosworth 2.3 litre 220 bhp? Or would you go for something in a lower state of tune for road use?

Hi Sprinty,
Why was the ecu difficult to figure out?, was it the wiring or mapping the issue, did you do this conversion yourself?.
Also from what I've read, the gearbox needs a spigot bearing fitting and modified release bearing, also it's only the MK1 ST170 engine that mates the MT75 g/box not the later MK2
Personally I would be happy with the standard ST170 engine
Any info would be great.
Cheers
Martin

I have the Type 9 Gearbox conversion, which fits as both Ford parts. Mapping for cold start/idle can be tricky as can getting the VVT to work,

John

Re 2.3 230 bhp Duratec, probably too much power for gearbox in my car, Type 9 rated to 200 bhp max

And a 2.0 zetec is easier to fit, cheaper unit and can easily give 200+ bhp with little tuning.

We raced a Stock black top with only after market cams on twin 45's getting 190bhp!!

Omex 200 series 3d ignition - not expensive as fuel injection and still hair raising on the road!!

Hi John,
Thanks for the input,
It seems to me from the gist of conversations that some Morgan owners like a bit of tuning, so I'm leaning more to the bias of an engine swap, as there are plenty of standard cars around, so mine might be just a little bit different.
If I add more power I'll probably have to have a look a upgrading the brakes too, what's the advise on that chaps?
Martin

See plenty of info here:

http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/119311/1

Here's another route of upgrading the engine Ive thought of, Morgan in 2004 upgraded the 4/4 to a 2.0l duratec engine, so if sourced one of them, couldnt I get a new loom from Morgan to make it a more modern spec, I'd then probably have to change the gearbox, probably from a rwd Transit.
Any major probs with this idea?
Martin

1.8 Duratec? The gearbox is the Ford MT75 which I think is common to some of the earlier cars as well as the Plus 4 and 4/4 up to around 2011 when Morgan started using the MX5 gearbox.

1.8 Duratec? The gearbox is the Ford MT75 which I think is common to some of the earlier cars as well as the Plus 4 and 4/4 up to around 2011 when Morgan started using the MX5 gearbox. [/quote]

Hi Jay,
Your super sport is that a 2.0l and does it have the Mt75 g/box ?
Also does your exhaust go through the chassis?
Cheers
Martin

Hi Martin, mines a 1.6 ford sigma (zetec SE) engine. It has the MT75 gearbox. The exhaust exits the inner wheel arch on right hand side facing the car.

The "SuperSport" title is tongue in cheek....the car has been upgraded by Aero Racing to competition level and when they fitted it with the SuperSport bonnet they jokingly told me my 4/4 SuperSport was ready for collection!