Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Jacking up the Mog

A question:

(Possibly for DW.....)

I've jacked up both ends at various times, supporting the car with axle stands. At the front under the bottom cross bar and at the rear using the rear cross member.

Is it safe, after jacking up the front end and supporting it to then jack up the rear end, so the car is supported at both ends on axle stands? I need to get underneath to remove the seats....

Why do I ask? Because the "Instructions/Warnings" that came with the second set of stands made it clear that this is "Unsafe". I can't see how if done with care.

Or should I use ramps at the front and axle stands at the back?

Advice appreciated!

Peter,
I have raised my car up onto axle stands in the way you describe, but you need to do it very carefully. I jacked mine at the front first and placed the axle stands under the cross member each side near to the camber plates. Then, using a trolley jack positioned centrally under the rear cross member, I jacked up the rear and put the axle stands either side of the cross member. The thing to watch for is that as you jack the rear up the trolley jack lifting point scribes an arc (as opposed to a vertical lift) and this tends to try to pull the car backwards slightly. This is OK if the trolley jack can move freely forwards on its wheels to compensate, but not good if it can't as the car will pull rearwards on the front axle stands (risk of toppling). Hope that's clear, bit difficult to describe in a few words what happened.

As for working completely below the car on 4x axle stands, I don't know. For me it would depend on the spread of the legs on the axle stands (i.e do they give a solid footprint so that the car is really stable). Even so you'd need to assess the risk vs the work you intend to do. Personally I wouldn't do any heavy work with the car fully off the ground like that, or work fully under it. An alternative may be to chock the car on stable wooden beams beneath the chassis rails once you've got it on the axle stands?

Couldn't you remove the seats one side at a time?

As Philip has stated above - Axle stands can be dangerous when used with a trolley jack because a trolley jack may not lift vertically. The arc of lift results in the trolley jack moving under the car, providing that the floor is smooth and the wheels are in line. If it can't move freely it will pull the car towards it as it lifts. This is what makes the lift tricky with axle stands already in place at one end. This is also why I made my wooden blocks, because that way the car can move freely along the block, but the raised ends mean that it can't roll off. My current method is first to lift the rear using the rear crossmember. Because my garage floor slopes towards the door, this means that the car is pulled rearwards slightly as I lift. Then I place the blocks under the rear wheels and lower, leaving the handbrake on. Then I use the front cross-tube to lift the front, with a careful watch on the rear wheels, which rotate on the blocks until the car is raised and level. Then I put the blocks under the front wheels. In both cases I use my lifting beams between the jack and chassis. If I were to use axle stands in this situation, I would be tempted to lift the rear first, and put the stands under the rear spring front hangers, which are a strong point. I do use this point when I need the wheels off. Axle stands with a decent U shaped end are best for this. To jack up the front in this scenario with axle stands at the rear, whether they are in this position or under the rear crossmember, needs great care. You should position the bases in opposing positions - one with the triangle base forward and one base aft, that way if the trolley jack creates movement, the bases will resist topple. Once raised, aside from using the front tube, you can also use the triangulation at the base of the bulkhead corner. This is where dealers use a four point lift, here and under the rear spring forward mount. This scenario is probably the only one where a scissor jack or hydraulic post jack are superior, because both provide a vertical lift.

I have removed & replaced seats with the car on the ground. It is easy.

Dave, Philip,TMG,

thanks for the clear answer!

I want the car up all square as the purpose for removing the seats is, as well as following Dave's guidance in the latest MSCC Mag, to fit Dynamat under the seats and across the rear bulkhead and then start on the luggage tray. So properly supported and flat is the key.

Now fully understanding the trolly jack issues I think the safe aproach is to support the front wheels on blocks and then jack up the rear. That way it cannt fall off the front stands.
Longer term I'm going to see if I can find a small hydraulic bottle jack to use as the second jack.

Of course what I really want is one of these:

Posh Jack

But it isn't exactly cheap.....
But neither was Aldermog....

One tip - I have to do the rear first otherwise when up on axle stands I cannot get the jack under the rear.

I can get to my seat bolts without jacking...so you might not need to...

Now you've gone and done it Peter, I've just succumbed to jack envy (Can you say that? )
Birthday and Christams presents sorted for SWMBO though

Peter, as DaveW says the arc of the jack is the important issue, I always place blocks of wood in front of the wheels when jacking up the front having got the rear up in the air, so it it slips there is chance of stopping a roll ward and time it move. Also if I need to get the car high of the ground I will raise it in stages. Rear the front then rear and so on, raising the axle stands one notch at a time. Also when doing so, and if I need to get under the car which I generally try and avoid, I place large wooden blocks under the wheels and chock at least 2 of them. In fact when I worked on Rosie's rear axle and had to change the axle clamps I lowered the chassis onto the wooden blocks ensuring the car could not go anywhere before I got under it. I would strongly recommend you pay a trip to B&Q and buy some 6" by 4" sleepers and have then cut into 2 foot lengths, I have 8, 2 for each wheel, but you might want 12 for tummy clearance.

Please be safe!

Sorry about the "Jack Envy" Philip,I have it too. I have sent the UK distributors and enquiry, but I fear it will be at least £1K....

The answer is clearly to jack one end, put blocks under the wheels and chock, then jack the other end and use axle stands.

I can possibly get to the seat bolts without lifting the car, but it will be easier if the car is a foot of the ground and I'll also be able to have a good look under Aldermog. I have to say that the multitude of bolts sticking out under Aldermog isn't impressive, the neat way us to use the correct length bolts with Domed nuts and lock washers, like these:

Domed Nuts

Guess what I'll be using on the seat bolts? There are 6 bolts per seat......