Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) V8 engine upgrades

Hi Guys, apologies if this subject has been covered before but;I have been speaking to RPI in Norwich regarding some unique driving traits - they have recommended a remap, new plug leads, an ignition amplifier and a fuel boost valve. Has anyone tried these mods???? The traits are a hesitation (almost to a point of stalling) when pulling away, then when i accelerate there is a burst of speed to 2500 RPM where it then starts to lag and she then accelerates again at 3000 RPM. I have also noticed that the accelerator pedal is very sensitive to very small inputs - although this could be my fault while i am getting used to the organ pedal. She is totally standard except from a full Librand exhaust (sorry if the spelling is incorrect)and only has 30,000 miles.

Thanks for any help or advice, Duffs

Hi Duffs,

What engine is this? 3.5, 3.9, carbs, injection?

If on carbs, it may just be timing and in either case, a re,ap will probably sort it.

If its a 3.5 injection, there's quite a lot of scope for upgrades. How deep are your pockets?

Hi Culminator, my engine is a 3.9 injection (92 model). I am not too interested in increasing the performance, more refining the engine characteristics to reduce the problems explained above, especially the almost stalling scenario every time i pull away. RPI has explained that the V8 engines were delivered to Morgan with Range Rover/Land Rover fuel and ignition mapping which is unsuitable for a car that is half the weight of the intended recipient. Rod from BHM told me that his +8 did the same thing - is this character or an annoyance that can be tuned out????

As not many +8 owners have responded i am not sure if my car is an isolated case, speaking to RPI would suggest not, but i would like to speak to someone independently whom has had the upgrades to verify that the work is worth nearly £1,000.

Regards Duffs

Duffs,

I have had all the above on my 2001 4.0L gems, plus the RPI exhaust and even the carbon fibre trumpets. The performance on mine is brilliant and seamless right up to 6,000 RPM. I have also fitted aero screens, which make a huge difference to the driving sensation. Mine is also Connaught green and when I saw yours I thought it looked fantastic (but also like mine). Mine is also one of the loudest around, but in rather nice V8 way after fitment off the RPI exhaust, they specially made smaller "bullet" silencers for me. There is a picture of my car on this web site somewhere but I cannot find it. Maybe someone will find it for you (me) ?

Best wishes Tim

Duffs,

I have found the picture of my car it is in the welcome section if you want to have a look.

best Tim

Hi Tim,

As you probably know Duffs car will be a Hotwire. The upgraded chip on a GEMS engine makes a lot of difference, as standard they are fueled to drag a 1.5 ton Range Rover up the side of a house....

Duffs I have never driven a Hotwire in a Mog, but do not recall reading about people complaining of the characteristics that you describe. I would suggest that there may be an issue that should be resolved before considering upgrades? I seem to recall that you got the car from a respected Mog dealer? have you discussed it with him?

Brian

Wonder if the air sensors want a clean?

Cheers,

Lovely car Tim, I must have missed it the first time round, I like the way you have tidied up the fog and reverse lights. Have you used the standard rear lights with appropriate bulbs / lenses?

Brian

Duffs,
Mine is a standard 3.5 flapper type injection plus 8 but I am happy enough with the performance and I haven't heard complaints of the symptoms you describe amongst other owners with hotwire.
When I ran a V8 Range Rover I did have ecu problems which required a refurb/recon. My recollection was that I sent the ecu away and it was checked to confirm that it was faulty before the work was done. The expert seems to be Mark Adams although I have never used him myself.
If you lived closer to the Midlands then I would recommend Kevin Vernon (Tudor Motors) without hesitation. Many people treat the electronics as a black art but Kevin seems to understand it!
If it were me I would get the car running properly as standard before spending too much on upgrades.
Maybe the dealer should be the first call!

Enjoy your car...

Malcolm

Brian,

yes I took the hanging reverse and fog lights off and put on the rear lights with correct bulbs. I think I remember getting the lights from SVC. On the front I have changed the side lights to the Lucas lights with the red markers on top. Much better at night.

best wishes Tim

Hi Malcolm, according to RPI the running characteristics are common to Hot wire engines as well, ideally i would like to contact an owner with the same engine whom can confirm the problems and then state that the upgrades work???

I could be looking at a trip to Norfolk when i get chance.

Duffs

Duffs, for the record I have experienced none of the problems you mentioned. Mine is a 4.0 from 2004 and pulls very smoothly, as you would expect, in almost any gear at any speed.

Hi I have a 1999 +8 3.9 with a John Eales mod. I had running problems when I first bought it and had a new stepper motor fitted which cost £130. It was running pretty rough up till then. HOWEVER I then found out on a TVR site that they can be cleaned. I have done mine myself since as it seemed to need it, probably through lack of use. Cleaning costs nothing so give it a go.

Duffs,
I am not an expert on +8s but my +4 needed a new ECU this year due to intermittent faults.
GoMog has a lot of data on your system. Good luck
John

http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/GEMS/GEMSbyPoole.pdf

Hi All,
This doesn't apply to the Duff's car. Only for 4.0L with GEMS system.
BR
Daniel.

Hi Wrinklies, could you PM me some more info on this John Earles mod please???

Thanks Duffs

Hi
I think the main issue with your car is brain, the land-rover standard ECU sets the fuel mixture every 1000rpm , by adding the chip it will be corrected every 100RPM this does away the steps in acceleration, The RPI chip is ok but I believe John McDonald retails one which is set up specifically for +8's ( light car ) wereas the RPI one is a general chip , If you are not looking at performance this is the only mod I would make .
Cheers
Alan

I was speaking to a a very knowledgeable guy who races an Aero 8 and he has recommended taking my Plus 8 down to a company called Austec near Gatwick whom will rolling road and perform diagnostics as he believes my problems may not be ECU related.

I 'll keep you all updated,

Duffs

Paul at Austec is a good guy but be prepared for £1000 to rolling road the car. You might want a chat with him first to see if he can offer some diagnosis without setting it up on the rollers.

Is that £1,000 or £100?

I hope its the latter.

Nope, sorry but a rolling road session at Austec is £1000!!!

I know, because I was thinking about getting my Big Valve Griffith done recently and that's what Paul quoted.

That's why i suggest you take your car down there and get him to have a look at it first. he may well be able to diagnose the problem and there may well be no reason to remap the ignition.

How can £1,000 for a rolling session be justified???

I have frequently taken motorcycles to rolling roads and it is normally around £50 for a power run and £150 for an hour to allow fuel/ignition mapping.

Rant over,

Thanks for the heads up Culminator

See I&J Macdonald for their r/road prices -£40 pounds I think and then£60 per hour of twiddling. Meabh.

There are different takes on this. I know it sounds a lot but there are valid reasons for both the prices to be correct.

At Surrey Rolling Road, you can go to a power run day and get chaged less than £50 for a run and a set of graphs power, torque and fuleing. For simple mapping again depending on what you are mapping Ignition ECU, Fuel ECU, Carbs or Disty then it's going to be different. Some even need a specific burned ECU as the OEM can not be re-programmed.

I would not see £1000 bieng off the mark if you need a burned chip, espeically for an initial engagement, second visits etc, tend to be cheaper.

An Aero at a top tuner is £600 and that can be done pretty easily. To get my sprint car done last year at Northampton Motorsport was about £600 and that covered setting up Twin 45's and mapping the 3d ignition (Omex 600) from scratch.

Austec have a great rep on the TVR Rover V8 front and I would say you are in good hands with them, you pays your money etc. etc.

Duffs, some good advice by a few people here. the best thing to do is contact Austec, explain the situation and ask for a rough estimate of how much it's likely to cost to fix.

The £1000 I was quoted was directly by Paul and on the basis that I needed a full session reprogramming fuel and ignition maps plus burning chips.

My other experience was with my Caterham that needed 8 hrs on the rollers to fully map to perfection and although that was a good 3 years ago, it was still about £600 (cash).

A rolling road session to detect a fault might be rather different to on e where you are searching for the last 1bhp and therefore you may well find that it's less expensive than we fear.

Would be good to hear the outcome!
Mike

Hi guys - i aim to speak with Austec around Easter time when i am back in the UK and the weather is better - i'll keep you all abreast of the outcome.

Thanks all for your advice,

Duffs

I've been thinking of fitting a efi PowerBoost valve to my 1999 flapper +8; has anyone else gone this route recently?