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#538505 - 21/10/18 02:38 PM Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016...........
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
Last Wednesday I went to start the Plus 4 and the immobiliser light didn't go off when I clicked the ignition on. I knew the battery could do with a charge, so I charged it up overnight. The following day it started normally so I put this down to voltage sensitivity.

Yesterday, I wanted to fill the tank,so jumped in expecting a start, and the immobiliser light didn't go out.

So I removed the cowl to examine the sensor ring which surrounds the ignition lock barrel. This ring has a scientific name but rather than guess I'll call it the sensor ring. It detects the sensor which is buried inside the plastic part of the key. If you look carefully on the metal key side of the black plastic the location of the key sensor is visible as a filled hole.

The sensor ring around the lock barrel is secured by a neoprene spacer. Almost like I've been there before! I moved the sensor ring outwards, and the car started. It was a bit nail biting at the filling station but it started OK.

When we got back home I tried again and it wouldn't start............ frown2

So I consulted my Guru..........

The distance between the key and the detector ring is critical to probably within 1mm or less.

He's had a couple of Morgans in recently in the "18 months old to two years old range" with this issue.

The trick is to get the detector ring as close as possible to the key handle...............

This is how it comes from the Factory. The lock barrel is wrapped with standard density self adhesive neoprene. Around that to prevent the ring slipping inwards is a thin strip of neoprene. If your cowl is leather wrapped, the leather adds additional distance between the ring and key.



The next image is a bit clearer. The wiring from the sensor is a bit tight, but can be eased out from the cable tie buried under the dashboard.



The black plastic cover pulls off the lock barrel which makes removing the original neoprene much easier.........
The detector ring is upper left.



This is the DW solution. High density neoprene and with the securing ring held with a cable tie.
Refitting the cowl is tedious. I reduced the overlap of leather to try and reduce the thickness around the lock barrel. First time didn't work so I had to go back in and space the ring a little further out at the top.



If you ever get caught where the immobiliser light won't go out, wipe the black plastic part of the key around the lock barrel, and you'll have about twenty seconds to insert the key and start the engine after the light goes out!!!

Three starts later it looks promising, but who knows!! thumbs
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

Top
#538511 - 21/10/18 03:48 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
jimmyw Offline

L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 156
Loc: Perthshire Scotland
This problem could occur on a 4/4 and because the warning light is not visible diagnosing the non starting would be difficult .
_________________________
Jimmy
2015 4/4 Sport Green

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#538513 - 21/10/18 04:10 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
milligoon Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 20/04/14
Posts: 2942
Loc: Dorset, UK
Can't recall having such distance critical issues after having it apart several times in the roadster when I was chasing a sluggish starting issue (key wiring to relay) are they different? Only have the naked plastic cowling in mine though.
_________________________
Mark - driving
Archie the Old English Sheep Mog...........
2010 Roadster 3.0 V6 (S3) wink

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#538517 - 21/10/18 04:26 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: jimmyw]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
Originally Posted By jimmyw
This problem could occur on a 4/4 and because the warning light is not visible diagnosing the non starting would be difficult .


At least the starter doesn't turn, the immobiliser is almost too good!
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

Top
#538534 - 21/10/18 07:54 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
smudger1 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 20/05/09
Posts: 147
Loc: Durham, UK
I had a similar problem which proved to be dry soldered joints in the spider unit behind the dash.
_________________________
1999 Morgan Plus 8. 3.9 ....
1961 Alvis TD21 Series1 3 Litre Auto....

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#538542 - 21/10/18 08:58 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Biglewey Offline
New to Talk Morgan

Registered: 22/10/17
Posts: 21
Had similar problem with my 2015 plus 4. No warning light but just would not start. Not wanting to bugger things up took to dealer who knew it could be an issue. Sorted it and not been a problem since. He said coil location had to be just right.


Edited by Biglewey (21/10/18 08:59 PM)

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#538601 - 22/10/18 12:19 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Bervie1 Offline

Just Getting Started

Registered: 05/05/18
Posts: 50
Loc: Angus, UK
“So I consulted my Guru..........”

You mean there is a higher grade of Guru than DaveW!!!

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#538608 - 22/10/18 01:36 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: Bervie1]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
Originally Posted By Bervie1
“So I consulted my Guru..........”

You mean there is a higher grade of Guru than DaveW!!!


Indeed there is! The trick is knowing who will know!!!!
guru
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

Top
#538621 - 22/10/18 03:34 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
bmgermany Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 15/08/14
Posts: 397
Loc: Northern Germany
Originally Posted By DaveW
Originally Posted By Bervie1
“So I consulted my Guru..........”

You mean there is a higher grade of Guru than DaveW!!!


Indeed there is! The trick is knowing who will know!!!!
guru
.

I don' have to know everything - to know whom I can ask is enough!
_________________________
2005 1800ccm 4/4 and a lot of HONDA CX500.......

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#538623 - 22/10/18 04:04 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 9807
Loc: Lancashire, England
How annoying
I know of two Mog owners just recently that have had problems with not starting down to the immobiliser
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

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#538624 - 22/10/18 04:04 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Roger Tapley Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 26/09/13
Posts: 1095
Loc: Kent England
Dave recently had a leather cowl fitted at Allon Whites when they had finished the car would not start so they had to dissemble the cowl and alter it since then it has refused to start twice but taking the key out and putting it back or changing to a second key starts the car. I now always take two keys with me! As you say it is disconcerting when this happens! Had the same problem with my 4/4 a few years ago Allon white also described the 20 sec rule! They also said jiggling behind the cowl with your finger sometimes works ! ! These pics above are very helpful thank you!
_________________________
RogT Old Git Racer ex 4/4 sand 2013
+4 GDI Royal Ivory 2015
Ford Fiesta ST2

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#538628 - 22/10/18 04:57 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: bmgermany]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18451
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By bmgermany
Originally Posted By DaveW
Originally Posted By Bervie1
“So I consulted my Guru..........”

You mean there is a higher grade of Guru than DaveW!!!


Indeed there is! The trick is knowing who will know!!!!
guru
.

I don't have to know everything - to know whom I can ask is enough!



Spot on bm thumbs

Someone will generally have the answer on here too, if Button hasn't seen it or done it before it's a rare thing during his decades of Morganing wink Then there is Arwyn with his wealth of knowledge and experience of all things Morgan whether it has 3 or 4 wheels, we are truly blessed at TM both these guys are disarmingly modest too.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#538686 - 23/10/18 05:35 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
John V6 Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 21/07/07
Posts: 12631
Loc: Suffolk
Here is some advice from my friend in Lund

_________________________
JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1

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#538737 - 23/10/18 03:11 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
The game is not over...........

Tried this morning and I had to use the swipe and 20 second rule.

So I need another go with the cowl.

Given that that this has worked flawlessly for over two years, it does make me wonder if aging is affecting sensitivity of the components, although I suppose it shouldn't.

No time today but will post findings later..................
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

Top
#538739 - 23/10/18 03:16 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
milligoon Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 20/04/14
Posts: 2942
Loc: Dorset, UK
Same for all keys Dave?
_________________________
Mark - driving
Archie the Old English Sheep Mog...........
2010 Roadster 3.0 V6 (S3) wink

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#538743 - 23/10/18 03:42 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
I deliberately haven't tried the second key yet............I'm going to have another go tomorrow, and maybe try that if I still can't get consistency.

If key 2 works every time then what does that infer? That using the key erodes the function??? It doesn't make sense..........
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

Top
#538788 - 23/10/18 07:37 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: milligoon]
MDS61 Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 08/07/15
Posts: 252
Loc: Shropshire
Originally Posted By milligoon
Same for all keys Dave?


I would recommend trying the other key? It will confirm or isolate the concern?
_________________________
Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 - "Seve"

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#538797 - 23/10/18 08:16 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
milligoon Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 20/04/14
Posts: 2942
Loc: Dorset, UK
If it is the key, then maybe the rfi transducer in the key is on the blink, you don't get very hot pockets do you?
_________________________
Mark - driving
Archie the Old English Sheep Mog...........
2010 Roadster 3.0 V6 (S3) wink

Top
#538798 - 23/10/18 08:22 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
It doesn't bode well if keys are going on the blink after two years does it......
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

Top
#538803 - 23/10/18 09:00 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
BertR Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 13/12/09
Posts: 513
Loc: Aerdenhout, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By DaveW
it does make me wonder if aging is affecting sensitivity.....


Dave, as you are few years older than me, do you think this problem will affect me later?
Cheers,
Bert
_________________________
2009 Roadster, Lancia midnight blue, cinnamon upholstery.

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#538808 - 23/10/18 09:22 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
IcePack Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 17/07/11
Posts: 386
Key on my 2011 4/4 would occasionally fail. Usually removing it & holding it at arms length then trying again seemed to work. This was from new. Anyway about 4 months ago used my 2nd key & touch wood it has worked every time. Not sure what powers the keys or could their sensitivity be different.
_________________________
4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.

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#538813 - 23/10/18 10:38 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: IcePack]
BobtheTrain Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 15/04/14
Posts: 4839
Loc: Renfrewshire
Hold it to your head when you use it. Clarkson trick, never needed to try it.
_________________________
Best Regards
Lang may yer lum reek

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#538816 - 23/10/18 10:54 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
It's not a zapper Bob, just a simple key with a transducer in the plastic part. No batteries either!

The Clarkson trick does work with zappers though. I've tried it a few times.....
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#538822 - 24/10/18 12:03 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
BobtheTrain Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 15/04/14
Posts: 4839
Loc: Renfrewshire
Originally Posted By DaveW
It's not a zapper Bob, just a simple key with a transducer in the plastic part. No batteries either!

The Clarkson trick does work with zappers though. I've tried it a few times.....


Ah! Right. Anyone know why the trick works?
_________________________
Best Regards
Lang may yer lum reek

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#538836 - 24/10/18 06:57 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
John V6 Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 21/07/07
Posts: 12631
Loc: Suffolk
They are ultra sonic & I guess the head acts as an amplifier like the head of a whale does.
_________________________
JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1

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#538840 - 24/10/18 08:21 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: John V6]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 9807
Loc: Lancashire, England
Originally Posted By John V6
They are ultra sonic & I guess the head acts as an amplifier like the head of a whale does.


Big head!
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

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#538842 - 24/10/18 08:29 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: Stewart S]
CooperMan Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 19/11/15
Posts: 546
Loc: Yorkshire
Originally Posted By Stewart S
Originally Posted By John V6
They are ultra sonic & I guess the head acts as an amplifier like the head of a whale does.


Big head!


Who ? Clarkson, certainly does !
_________________________
Jon M

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#538853 - 24/10/18 11:18 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Ray Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 3900
Loc: Llanelli
Originally Posted By DaveW
It's not a zapper Bob, just a simple key with a transducer in the plastic part. No batteries either!

The Clarkson trick does work with zappers though. I've tried it a few times.....
sorry Dave, don't understand is there nothing to internally power the key. Sounds like magic. Can't see any way of getting into the key. PS luckily this car came with four keys.


Edited by Ray (24/10/18 11:21 AM)
_________________________
.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.

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#538861 - 24/10/18 12:49 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
Google it Ray. The coil around the steering lock barrel induces a current in the chip and asks the chip to identify itself. The chip provides a code which disarms the immobiliser.

The immobiliser remains off until the key is removed and after about twenty seconds it re-arms.

Fancier chips also receive a new code each time they are used but I don't think this happens with the Ford system.

Anyway better news. I spent the morning messing with the cowl. The original key works every time with the cowl removed and the sensor ring closer.

I've re-wrapped the lock barrel, this time with leather. I've also ground away the plastic from the inside of the cowl around the lock hole to get the sensor ring as close to the key as possible. It took three fits to get an acceptable look but its back on. Since then its worked every time. Only time will tell if that's it. thumbs
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

Top
#538869 - 24/10/18 01:44 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
CooperMan Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 19/11/15
Posts: 546
Loc: Yorkshire
Dave, you mention Ford as the OEM for the immobiliser, (& I assume ignition lock), does that mean with the Land Rover indicator stalks we still have a mix of suppliers ?
_________________________
Jon M

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#538874 - 24/10/18 02:04 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
Good question Jon. I just assume that the hideous key is Ford......you might have a point!
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

Top
#538877 - 24/10/18 02:30 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 9807
Loc: Lancashire, England
Originally Posted By DaveW
........I just assume that the hideous key is Ford......


Do I detect a slight loosing of your normal patience on this one Dave?
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

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#538879 - 24/10/18 02:37 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
Well, I do tire of the dagger like key poking a hole in my trouser pocket........................

It's irritating..............when most keys now fold in on themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I don't desire keyless, any more than I desire an electronic handbrake, or stop/start, which are all pointless complexity.............

But I'd like a smaller key.......
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

Top
#538886 - 24/10/18 02:48 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 9807
Loc: Lancashire, England
Originally Posted By DaveW
Well, I do tire of the dagger like key poking a hole in my trouser pocket........................

It's irritating..............when most keys now fold in on themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I don't desire keyless, any more than I desire an electronic handbrake, or stop/start, which are all pointless complexity.............

But I'd like a smaller key.......


Get yourself a girly key pouch like me
No keys to poke oneself with and also stops any keys jangling from the ignition

_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

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#538889 - 24/10/18 02:58 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
But where do you keep it? A bulging pocket??
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

Top
#538897 - 24/10/18 03:53 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Soleng Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 526
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By DaveW
But where do you keep it? A bulging pocket??

I see where this is ending, in SWBO's purse scared

Harald
_________________________
+4 4-seater 2008 Squadron Blue


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#538910 - 24/10/18 05:04 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Ray Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 3900
Loc: Llanelli
Originally Posted By DaveW
Google it Ray. The coil around the steering lock barrel induces a current in the chip and asks the chip to identify itself. The chip provides a code which disarms the immobiliser.

The immobiliser remains off until the key is removed and after about twenty seconds it re-arms.

Fancier chips also receive a new code each time they are used but I don't think this happens with the Ford system.
Thanks Dave, the wonders of modern electronics
_________________________
.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.

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#538911 - 24/10/18 05:08 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Ray Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 3900
Loc: Llanelli
Originally Posted By DaveW
But where do you keep it? A bulging pocket??
Tight trousers could make you popular in the pub. innocent
_________________________
.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.

Top
#538919 - 24/10/18 05:34 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
Tight trousers always did that Ray.......
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

Top
#538925 - 24/10/18 05:42 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 9807
Loc: Lancashire, England
Originally Posted By DaveW
But where do you keep it? A bulging pocket??


It’s not that bulky

I just wear regular Levi’s and it fits a treat

Hanky and change in left pocket, keys in right pocket

Wallet with cards and notes on the back of my phone in upper breast inside jacket pocket

Specs in upper outer breast pocket - usually with a small lens cleaning hanky

Simples
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

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#538926 - 24/10/18 05:46 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: Stewart S]
Ray Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 3900
Loc: Llanelli
Originally Posted By Stewart S
Originally Posted By DaveW
But where do you keep it? A bulging pocket??


It’s not that bulky

I just wear regular Levi’s and it fits a treat

Hanky and change in left pocket, keys in right pocket

Wallet with cards and notes on the back of my phone in upper breast inside jacket pocket

Specs in upper outer breast pocket - usually with a small lens cleaning hanky

Simples

with all those things in your brest pockets you could have more attention than Dave in the pub.
_________________________
.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.

Top
#538929 - 24/10/18 05:57 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 9807
Loc: Lancashire, England
They even have a DaveW Morgan orange one

_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

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#538950 - 24/10/18 07:16 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
Oh no..........stop tempting me.......... innocent
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

Top
#539055 - 25/10/18 01:02 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
Update.

It took three attempts to sort this.

With the cowl removed and the sensor ring edged outwards, the key worked every time.

First I removed all the overlapped leather on the inside of the cowl and reassembled. That wasn't enough.

So I ground away some of the plastic on the inside of the cowl around the hole and reassembled. That wasn't enough either.

So I ground most of the plastic around the hole to the diameter of the ring, so that the ring now sits just behind the leather trim. No plastic in the way at all............

I also replaced my replacement neoprene around the barrel with leather!!!!!

Hey presto......now I insert the key (without turning) and the immobiliser disarms in two seconds.....one full flash of the warning light, and a second short flash. So far over about half a dozen tests its been consistent............

So time will tell. It appears that age or use affects the coil and transducer and reduces the range. Given that we're talking mm's a tiny reduction in range is enough.

So if it happens when you're out, remember the 20 second rule.
Wipe the black plasic part of the key around the lock barrel. When the light goes out you have 20 seconds to start the engine............. thumbs
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DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
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#539286 - 26/10/18 04:50 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Still working OK! grin2
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#539514 - 28/10/18 09:06 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Alan Patterson Offline
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Thanks for the info, Dave. This happened to my car yesterday (2yr old Plus 4). We were just on our way to a meet, so didn't have time to investigate and had to take the tin-top.
This morning I held the chip closer to the barrel (remembering the 20 second rule), and hey-presto the immobiliser dis-armed and the engine fired up.
Now to sort out a permanent fix .............
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AP08 MOG
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#539522 - 28/10/18 11:02 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Good work Alan.

There's something going on at two years it seems........
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2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
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#539568 - 28/10/18 05:28 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
KEVFITZ Offline
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On my +4 Supersport the chip is not in the key but a separate piece of torpedo shaped plastic on a chain.

The car will only fire up when the immobiliser is held right up to the ignition ring.
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#539577 - 28/10/18 06:04 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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I suspect that will be a Mazda immobiliser Kev.
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#539580 - 28/10/18 06:11 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
milligoon Offline
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Maybe the mog battery has dropped enough to effect its range?
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#539606 - 28/10/18 07:13 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Possible Mark. And quite plausible.
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#539611 - 28/10/18 07:37 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: milligoon]
+8Rich Offline

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Originally Posted By milligoon
Maybe the mog battery has dropped enough to effect its range?


That's what happened with my car just before I changed the battery as a preventative measure. That cleared it totally so I surmised it must have been the at rest terminal volts being a smidgen low for it to operate .

I never put an optimate on any car as I know how well they fry batteries, I do always throw the Red switch and isolate the electrics and that way I can leave the car for up to 2 months without starting if I am away without the need to charge.
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#539742 - 29/10/18 02:42 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Alan Patterson Offline
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I successfully managed to dis-arm the immobiliser today with the intention of taking it to BHM (as it's still under warranty), BUT the car wouldn't start. The battery is fully charged and the starter motor is turning over. Very strange as it started OK yesterday once I had dis-armed the immobiliser.
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#539858 - 29/10/18 11:18 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
milligoon Offline
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Loc: Dorset, UK
Are these just newer/ish cars having issues? Bad job lot or different source for imob sensor or transducers?
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#539869 - 30/10/18 06:55 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: Alan Patterson]
DaveW Offline
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Originally Posted By Alan Patterson
I successfully managed to dis-arm the immobiliser today with the intention of taking it to BHM (as it's still under warranty), BUT the car wouldn't start. The battery is fully charged and the starter motor is turning over. Very strange as it started OK yesterday once I had dis-armed the immobiliser.


Did you warm it up fully Alan the day before?
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2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
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#539887 - 30/10/18 09:18 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Alan Patterson Offline
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No - just ticked over for a short time in the garage
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#539921 - 30/10/18 12:15 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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There have been odd occasions of GDIs getting wet plugs after a short idle.
Try it again and if it wont fire you might have to dry the plugs.

Keith might have a dodge....like disconnecting a wire to fool it into making a hot start........
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#539924 - 30/10/18 12:28 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
CooperMan Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 19/11/15
Posts: 546
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Originally Posted By DaveW
There have been odd occasions of GDIs getting wet plugs after a short idle.
Try it again and if it wont fire you might have to dry the plugs.

Keith might have a dodge....like disconnecting a wire to fool it into making a hot start........


Remember the days of Cold Start aerosol ? Lethal stuff, but worked
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#539935 - 30/10/18 01:35 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Yeah, never used it though. When my first car.......105E Anglia wouldn't start in winter, I parked it on the pub car park over the road and pushed it down the hill every morning and jumped in.....
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#539946 - 30/10/18 03:09 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Alan Patterson Offline
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Originally Posted By DaveW
Yeah, never used it though. When my first car.......105E Anglia wouldn't start in winter, I parked it on the pub car park over the road and pushed it down the hill every morning and jumped in.....

I can remember doing the same with my Dad's 105E - pushing it up and down the drive to bump-start it! It never started first time on the key, always at the third time of asking, but always started when bumped!
Thanks for the tip on the wet plugs. I've had them all out and cleaned but still no success. Also spoke to Keith - no way of fooling the car into submission. Believe it or not the immobiliser is now dis-arming with the key in the lock, but just won't start. Having it trailered to BHM on Thursday.
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#539960 - 30/10/18 04:33 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Sorry to hear that you have problems Alan...............
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#539961 - 30/10/18 04:43 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Stewart S Offline
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Originally Posted By DaveW
Sorry to hear that you have problems Alan...............


Yes sorry to hear

Quite baffling
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#539968 - 30/10/18 05:02 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
IcePack Offline
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Alan, You have tried reseting the "crash Switch" for many of a better word?
On my 4/4 if the switch trips the engine will crank but not start.
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#539974 - 30/10/18 05:33 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: IcePack]
Alan Patterson Offline
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Originally Posted By IcePack
Alan, You have tried reseting the "crash Switch" for many of a better word?
On my 4/4 if the switch trips the engine will crank but not start.

Yep - done that. My son-in-law has just been round and we've eliminated the fuses as a potential source using one of his testing gizmos.

Many thanks for your suggestions chaps. It's over to BHM now.
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#540213 - 31/10/18 08:11 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Phil1953 Offline
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Registered: 12/09/16
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I have the exact same problem, going back to Morgan to sought out under warranty end of November, I will let you know how they rectified the fault. From your comments and reply's this seems a common problem. Had car from new, fault started around 12 months ago. Coil in correct position on barrel.

Morgan Plus 4 2016

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#540236 - 31/10/18 10:39 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Let us know how you get on!
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#542601 - 13/11/18 09:52 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
andymot Offline

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So chaps - presuming the car/s are now fixed - what was the issue?
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#543988 - 21/11/18 03:08 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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UPDATE:

Last weekend, when we went for a drive, the immobiliser was slow to disarm. Not the usual two seconds, more like ten seconds.

When we came back after 46 miles with a hot cockpit, I re-tested it and it was back to two seconds.

So today I did a bit more experimenting................

It was cold in the garage, about 5 degrees C. I inserted the key and it was reluctant to disarm. So I wiped the side of the key against the lock barrel and it then disarmed. I put the key in the ignition but didn't start the engine.

With the key in place after 20 odd seconds the immobiliser re-activated. Note that it doesn't do this if the engine has been started.

I then connected the battery charger with the key still in place and within a couple of minutes, if that, the immobiliser de-activated.

Clearly then, this is a temperature/voltage issue. Cold temp reduces battery voltage........

After an hour on the charger, I'm back to a two second disarm when I put the key into the lock barrel.

Keith at BHM, and other dealers are aware of this issue.
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2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
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#544076 - 21/11/18 08:08 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Malcolm Hoar Offline
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Registered: 13/06/14
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At the Breakfast meet at RTCC the other week apparently there were four others as well as myself with the same issue.
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#544077 - 21/11/18 08:12 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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I think BHM have had five. Not sure if that includes mine!

I wonder if its a dodgy batch of immobilisers.

It would be interesting to see if these cars went through the factory at the same time.
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2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#544092 - 21/11/18 09:34 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Malcolm Hoar Offline
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Production on mine started September 2016 picked up from dealer January 2017.
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#544104 - 21/11/18 10:51 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Mine was delivered at the end of June 2016.
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#544133 - 22/11/18 11:09 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Further update:

Tested again this morning. Garage below 5 degrees C, but full battery from yesterday's charge.

Immobiliser disarmed in two seconds. So........I'm thinking that this must be battery voltage related. The sensor coil is permanently live, as it has to read the key before the ignition is switched on. My instinct tells me this shouldn't be 12volts, but I haven't tested it. Clearly there's a very tight margin around 12volts whereby any reduction de-sensitises the coil.

I don't see an easy fix to this, other than a fully charged battery.
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#544135 - 22/11/18 11:12 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
milligoon Offline
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Registered: 20/04/14
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Loc: Dorset, UK
Maybe the new painted chassis type is effecting the grounding?
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#544154 - 22/11/18 12:32 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
IvorMog Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 17/04/17
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Originally Posted By DaveW
Further update:

Tested again this morning. Garage below 5 degrees C, but full battery from yesterday's charge.

Immobiliser disarmed in two seconds. So........I'm thinking that this must be battery voltage related. The sensor coil is permanently live, as it has to read the key before the ignition is switched on. My instinct tells me this shouldn't be 12volts, but I haven't tested it. Clearly there's a very tight margin around 12volts whereby any reduction de-sensitises the coil.

I don't see an easy fix to this, other than a fully charged battery.



Maybe remove or bypass the Morgan fitted immobiliser and use an alternative method of immobilising the car. That's what I did when I removed the old ECU.

Not sure how easy that is on the more modern cars but one of our electronic gurus should be able to find an answer.

Plenty of stand alone immobilisers on the market.


Edited by IvorMog (22/11/18 12:48 PM)
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1999 4/4 1.8 Zetec Silvertop

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#544158 - 22/11/18 12:54 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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I'll leave that one for the experts Bob. I think it links into the ECU so may not be a simple fix.
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#545027 - 27/11/18 04:54 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Update: well as at 27th November it still disarms at two seconds, without any more charge into the battery.

But I haven't finished yet. I'm going through all the main connections. I've done the battery, which was OK. The battery earth is bolted onto the battery cradle cross-member. This is bolted onto the chassis. and locates above the lower rail.

I don't know if the holes for the battery cradle crossmember are drilled before the autophoretic coating, but I do think having this arrangement may cause trouble later on.

So today I've added a supplementary earth lead from the battery cradle pivot bolt, to the fixing bolt on the chassis. I scraped away a bit of the coating under the penny washer to get a good contact, and tested it for continuity.

Tomorrow I'll look at the other main earth contact points. There's one in the spare wheel cavity in the offside corner, and two onto the bulkhead above the brake servo.
thumbs
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#545045 - 27/11/18 05:32 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
John V6 Offline

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Dave, I know Allon White told me the earth that is onto the heater box on the passenger side inside the car can often be faulty.
Mine was loose & I also ran another line to the safety hoop to be safe.
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2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1

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#545307 - 28/11/18 08:08 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Right the next steps.

First, because today was warm and wet, when I opened the garage door I got a light covering of condensation. This allowed me to test the heated screen, which was pretty good as it turned out.
They do tend to have odd non-working strips..............



Back to the story then.

The next image shows my supplementary earth lead from the battery carrier to the chassis. Not really necessary but a belt and braces add on. It tucks away quite nicely.



At the rear I removed the earth connection pictured here, scraped away some of the coating under the fastener (to improve the contact area), and replaced it with a dash of ACF50.
I found a cigarette stub inside the spare wheel cavity.....burned right down to the filter tip.



Then I made up a supplementary piece of earth cable for the bulkhead area.



Behind the brake servo are two earth connections onto the bulkhead just visible here. I piggy backed my new extension onto both.........The one on the left put up a fight, it was hard to start the nut, and access is terrible............



This is a better shot if the one nearest the gearbox:



The end of this cable is attached to the fastener here.....this bolt goes through the chassis above and to the left of the clutch pedal in the drivers side footwell. Again dripped with ACF50, then Tectyl 506 wax over the top.



My thinking is this........the immobiliser issue seems to be with cars from 2016, and of course what changed in 2016?.......... the chassis treatment. So then I'm wondering if the earth connections through the autophoretic coating might not be as robust as through the galvanised finish............... and might degrade over time.

So we'll see what happens now.

Finally I have one more question for the panel..............

Now, my immobiliser light flashes regularly without the key in place.

With the key in place the light goes out in two seconds and stays out, even when the engine isn't started.

If I leave the key in the ignition, the light stays out.

BUT....I have this memory that when my Plus 4 was new, with the key in place but the engine not running, it flashed rhythmically, like two flash, pause, two flash, pause, and so on.

Can the panel check this out please and report back?

Thankyou! thumbs
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2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
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#545339 - 28/11/18 11:24 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Rog Offline

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Registered: 31/05/12
Posts: 836
Loc: Sumerset
I think the Plus 4 would have used the Ford Visteon EEC-V ECU. No flashing with the key in and ignition on unless the chip had fallen out and then it would flashing rapidly. The slow flash is when the key is out showing the immobiliser is armed.
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2006 4/4 Duratec

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#545363 - 29/11/18 09:37 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
John V6 Offline

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Dave,
that is what my Roadster does also.
John
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2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1

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#545380 - 29/11/18 11:25 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Here's an update, and this, apparently is how the Plus 4 GDI should behave.......(I've consulted my Guru).

Key into ignition.......two seconds and two flashes and it disarms.

Leave key in ignition without turning..............

Wait 30 seconds approx, and the light goes 'flashflash flaaaaash'
So dot dot dash......and this repeats every thirty seconds while the key is in the barrel but the engine not turned on.

Mine is now doing this, so hopefully it's sorted!
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DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#549848 - 23/12/18 03:34 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Well, yes and no.........

It's sorted with a fully charged battery. I've tested most days since this upgrade and it's been fine. But over a week without charging the battery, and on a day when it was one degree C in the garage, it was slow to disarm. Leaving the key in place, I got one dot-dot-dash, then it rearmed.

A quick charge of the battery restored normal service.

So the voltage sensitivity is real, and just something to be aware of.

On my 2005 Roadster, the immobiliser light flashes until the ignition is switched on. This means that the sensor coil is not permanently live, and on this car there is no significant battery drain.
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2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
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#551581 - 03/01/19 08:15 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Probably my final word on this. Over Christmas I've allowed the battery to slowly lose charge. I've tested response each day.
Today at 3 degrees C the immobiliser was sluggish. I put the multimeter on the battery and it's showing 12.18volts. Its now back on charge. From this I'm deducing that 12volts is the point at which things might get awkward.
But I carry a 12v booster pack when we're touring so I'm reasonably confident, now I understand what's going on.
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2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#551621 - 04/01/19 07:57 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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If your battery is at 12V it's pretty flat already! smile
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#551626 - 04/01/19 08:38 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Richard Wood Offline
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#551723 - 04/01/19 04:10 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Today after the charge it showed 13.10 Volts.......
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#551727 - 04/01/19 04:21 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
griffo Offline
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Registered: 31/07/14
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My spies tell me the "reluctor" which picks up the signal from the key chip is just held on with a cable tie (try checking that) and it can work loose until it fails to detect the chip. Pip pip.
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#551738 - 04/01/19 05:41 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16763
Loc: South Yorkshire
Not even a cable tie griffo...see first post. Maybe there is now...
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DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#552055 - 06/01/19 10:03 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
griffo Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 31/07/14
Posts: 388
Loc: Cornwall
Thanks Dave,
I have to admit I had not read the first post. I've asked the computer gurus programming the the Ecoboost Plus 4 Plus to delete the immobiliser, which is apparently very easy. So no more chips falling out of keys and non starting issues. I will fit a "secret switch" on the power feed to the low pressure fuel pump instead.
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#552060 - 06/01/19 10:24 AM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Richard Wood Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 1385
Loc: East Harling, Norfolk UK
Originally Posted By DaveW
Today after the charge it showed 13.10 Volts.......


Yes that would be surface charge, whereby the chemical composition that dictates a fully charged battery had not or could not be absorbed into the thickness of the plates. Think of it as a form of super charging.

It will leave the electrolyte closer to pure acid though which over time will errode the plates. That's why smart chargers drop to a float charge voltage when near full charge is sensed. Some ECU driven alternators with remote regulation offer this as well.

Putting the headlights on for a minute will quickly remove the surface charge.
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2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1967 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom

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#552157 - 06/01/19 03:01 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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It's a modern CTEK conditioner Richard. I don't leave it permanently connected, I let the battery cycle down a few days and then top it up overnight. My Roadster battery had managed 13 years when I replaced it last year.
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2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
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#552164 - 06/01/19 03:16 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
BobtheTrain Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 15/04/14
Posts: 4839
Loc: Renfrewshire
Originally Posted By DaveW
It's a modern CTEK conditioner Richard. I don't leave it permanently connected, I let the battery cycle down a few days and then top it up overnight. My Roadster battery had managed 13 years when I replaced it last year.

I thought CTEK ran down the battery itself and then recharged it?
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#552165 - 06/01/19 03:18 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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It has multiple features Bob.
That's one option I think.
The only thing it can't do is make tea.
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DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#552170 - 06/01/19 03:30 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
BobtheTrain Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 15/04/14
Posts: 4839
Loc: Renfrewshire
Originally Posted By DaveW
It has multiple features Bob.
That's one option I think.
The only thing it can't do is make tea.

Waste of space, then. smile
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#552172 - 06/01/19 03:35 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Not really, I have a tea maker in the house..........
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2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
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#552178 - 06/01/19 03:46 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Burgundymog Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 3337
Loc: Essex
Originally Posted By DaveW
Not really, I have a tea maker in the house..........


Mrs W ? redcard
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2013 narrow bodied + 4 Ruby
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#552179 - 06/01/19 03:46 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Registered: 11/12/08
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Correct.....
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2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#552184 - 06/01/19 04:02 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
meabh Offline

Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 1816
Loc: southwest France
Oooh John and Dave, My 2010 Roadster immobiliser lamp flashed whether the key is in or out. At least it goes out when the key is turned. Ah I just saw your bit about your Roadster Dave so all is well.


Edited by meabh (06/01/19 04:05 PM)

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#552186 - 06/01/19 04:16 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
Richard Wood Offline
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Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 1385
Loc: East Harling, Norfolk UK
Hi Dave, just explaining why you saw the unusually high off load battery voltage shortly after charging. It would have bled down to 12.7 volts over time anyway.
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2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1967 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom

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#552190 - 06/01/19 04:28 PM Re: Workshop Note: Immobiliser C.2016........... [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
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Registered: 11/12/08
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Loc: South Yorkshire
Yes I understand that Richard. It was immediately after disconnecting the CTEK.
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2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
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