Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms The pros and cons of sliding pillar suspension.

You would be surprised, my 19 year old son and I took three cars along to Williams Automobiles recent Track Day including both my 3.7 Roadster and 997 Porsche 911S and both cars were fairly evenly matched. One could hardly call Castle Combe a mirror flat circuit it has plenty of bumps.

The other interesting point was the way the 911 on the limit chewed tyres whereas the Roadster despite being drifted through the bends showed remarkably little tyre wear.

Roadster / 911 comparison on reflection.

Roadster wins on power to weight by quite a margin and surprisingly quick.
911 wins on ultimate grip but the tires have to work very hard.
911 faster top end on the straight but not by much I couldn't get much over 130mph on the relatively short straights in either car. The 911 however felt as if it was just getting into its stride at this speed, where as in the Morgan things were starting to get interesting and you are very aware of what a different beast the Morgan is when it comes to scrubbing the speed back off.
911 brakes are leagues ahead of the Morgan.

I would say the Trad is a sports car and far more involving and entertaining to drive than more modern "sports cars" with all their sticky tyres and electronic aids.

Having said that I love both of the above cars for their differences.

Back in the 1990's I was at Spyder Engineering in Peterborough to collect one of their excellent replacement chassis for an Elan Sprint I was restoring and in their development workshop was an "elan-type" chassis being modified to take a morgan body tub and V8 plus-8 engine. Whilst it was supposed to be a bit sort of hush-hush I was told it was being done for Rob Wells (who at that time was running Libra Motive) as a development prototype for the factory with a view to replacing the traditional sliding pillar chassis.

Does anyone on here know anything of this and did it ever make it into a complete road-going car ?

Might have something to do with the 130kg ballast in the passenger seat!
Thanks for the ride, I really enjoyed it

I certainly would argue that a Caterham isnt a true sports car. IMO its a crude kit car based on a home built original design by Chapman. Its a track day car. In that sense its a bit like an aerial atom from an earlier generation. Had one for a very short time ( OK it was a westfield) and sold it off cheap because it seemed to me to be far too dangerously constructed for road use.

What is a sports car? Well I guess the words mean different things to different people but forming my opinions as a youth in the 60s, a sports car to me is an open two seater ( closed it becomes a GT car), that is designed for fun fast driving on the public roads and the occasional club circuit work.It has to be light. It has to be an up to date design - the technology is important. Thats why I made the point about trads on slow circuits - you can strap the suspension down on a billiard table surface and grip is determined largely by the tyres. Similarly, a slow speed circuit doesnt really test aerodynamics. But do the comparison on the typical A or B road and the result would be very different.

I had a good example of this when I last did a Lotus owners club track day at Castle Combe. There was the full raneg there from Lotus 6 through the original Elite and Elan to the Elise, not to mention the likes of the Esprit. Yet round the bends there was little or no difference between the various generations because the surface was so smooth. My Elise was just marginally faster than the Elite from the early 60s. Down the straight, it was a differnet world of course.



You have it in one! The charm bit that is. The Elise forums are , sadly, populated by young men full of testosterone and aggression and doing the sort of silly things that we all did at that age - like putting 450bhp engines in an Elise! Its also the reason why I subscribe to Motor Sport rather than one of the younger magazines. And why I ride a BMW and not a Ducati. The next step is all beige clothes and shoes that fasten with velcro!

And why I ride a BMW and not a Ducati. The next step is all beige clothes and shoes that fasten with velcro! [/quote]

It's obviously our charm and our sense of humour hey what's wrong with beige clothes and Velcro he'll be knocking flat caps and string back gloves next

"I certainly would argue that a Caterham isnt a true sports car. IMO its a crude kit car based on a home built original design by Chapman. Its a track day car. In that sense its a bit like an aerial atom from an earlier generation. Had one for a very short time ( OK it was a westfield) and sold it off cheap because it seemed to me to be far too dangerously constructed for road use."

Oh Howard, and I was begining to really like you to.

I'm sorry, but you should not, ever, compare the Caterham Seven with any Westfield, especially older ones, they were crude, not particularly well made, with hard suspension and very little in the way of subtlety.

Just for fun, go and try out a modern current Seven and see what you think. I feel you might be surprised.

There are sports cars, and there are two seaters. For instance I would put the BMW Z3 and 4, new Jag F type etc into the two seater class and the Caterham, Elise, and all Morgans into the Sports car class. It does get a little more difficult when you are talking about Boxters and MX5's for example, but out and out speed is not what it is all about, there has to be a huge dollop of fun. After all what is the point of a car that is so sophisticated that you have to be doing over 100mph before you even notice the speed, no, fun at all speeds defines a sports car, not the number of seats and the amount of horsepower it puts out. Having said that, more power is always welcome of course. Ask any 4/4 owner.

PS I know my avatar is a Westfiel, there were no Caterhams in the picture library, and I'm too lazy to work out how to add my owm.

I totally agree with this, although the "What is a sports car" is really an unanswerable question. Two seats and convertible for sure. Light weight - with no fripparies was how it started out, so no electric windows, aircon, power steering and so on.

A good friend of mine has an MGTC. One memorable summer evening we took it across Salisbury plain as the sun was setting. It was idyllic. The TC is primitive in design, and was old fashioned when it was built, but what a sports car. The Morgan with any engine is an animal in comparison.

There are very few two seaters true to the essence of the sports car these days, because buyers want all the bells & whistles, which means excess weight, and a need for more power to deliver good performance.

OK, as a sensitive 4-seater owner I've risen to the bait ! Surely my beautiful Morgan is a sports car !

To the internet...

Googled "sports car definition", first hit: "a low-built car designed for performance at high speeds, often having a roof that can be folded back" - thats better, no seatism there, job done. But oh no, second hit: "a production car designed for speed, high acceleration, and manoeuvrability, having a low body and usually adequate seating for only two persons". Drat.

Obviously, as everyone knows, you can't trust what you read on the internet. Better check Clarksons "Hot 100", that must have lots of low slung 4 seat rag tops. Nope. Double drat.

How about Quentin Willson's "Ultimate classic Car Book" ? Triple drat.

Conclusion ? The Morgan 4 seater is unique - the only sporty 4 seater - that's why I bought one !

Richard, yours is definitely a sports car with twice the enjoyment
ie 2x2 passengers.

Richard, I wholly concur with Wirewheel, just because it has 4 seats does not make it less of a sports car, remember, it has to be fun to drive, first and foremost, and I'm guessing it is just as much fun as any 2 seater?