Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Roadster 3.7L "Death Rattle"

Picking up on something which cropped up in a recent thread -
How many 3.7L Roadster owners are experiencing the death rattle from the engine at around 3000rpm? Has anyone had a satisfactory explanation for this other than "they all do it sir"? Is this another area where the ECU supplied as O/E is not doing what is required since there is apparently a timing change at that RPM? The engine is clearly in a distressed state when this happens.
In my case I have the rattle. In addition, on occasions the spanner light on the dash illuminates and the car starts on 3 cylinders. On other occasions the spanner illuminates and the car goes into limp home mode for no apparent reason. This happened recently when I was joining fast moving traffic on a dual carriageway and it was downright dangerous. I am beginning to seriously question whether my car is "fit for the purpose for which it was intended", especially since the dealer has indicated that a suitable ECU will cost me £1700 on top of the +£53K I paid for the car 8 months ago!
Anyone care to comment?

Do a bit of searching on the Mustang forums Max. I recall something about a rattle. The three cylinder start was mentioned on another thread on TM and seems to be about the cam sensor on one side not sending a message.

Is your car within the factory 2 year warranty? from your previous posts http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/238692/Finally#Post238692 I guess so.

If so then how can your dealer expect to you to pay for said failings?

Have these common SAFETY issues been made aware to VOSA if not why not.

What does it take? a Mog owner to be tail ended because the car went into splutter mode?

I would give your Dealer the option to get it sorted and actually let Morgan know how you feel.

This lack of care maybe down to the Dealership it maybe down to Morgan.

A warranty is there to alleviate these concerns use it and don't take any carp!

You see? It's not just three wheelers..!!

I agree with Milligoon.

Hi

When I tested the replacement ECU for MMC. I had the limp home mode several times and also the start on one bank of cylinders. The start on one bank of 3 is due to a Cam Sensor not working properly and/or a High Voltage spike from the HT Coil that is nearest the Cam Sensor that is causing the HT noise to mask the sensor current, the result is that the ECU cannot accurately read the electrical signal from the cam sensor due to HT noise and therefore cannot set up the Cam advance correctly on start up. So one bank only fire and then it dies.

The noise was induced due to the path to the loom for the replacement ECU from MBE supplied by MMC. So you may have a noisy or failing HT Coil on one of the spark plugs.

The other issue you describe, going into limp home mode maybe due to the above but it could also be due to the accelerator fly by wire. It sends a voltage to the ECU that at no throttle is 0.5volts and fully open 4.5volts. This is supposed to be a linear increase, obviously it will be stepped and not perfect, the ECU has a + and - range for the linear graph as no electrical circuit is perfect. Now as the MBE supplied ECU was programable they could adjust for this variance, it took some time to realise that they had transposed one of the figures and was too small causing the limp home mode at 5000rpm to sometime occur, so a particular point of the Accelerator pedal. So if your car is a standard out of the box 3.7 roadster it may have 2 issues the first and the second fluctuating voltage going out of the range of parameters entered in the Ford ECU programming.

As for the dealer saying you need a replacement upgrade ECU, I do not agree, the car was working fine until now, it would have had the rev hang issue documented by me and many others, which can only be resolved by the ECU that the dealer is referring to. The current issues I would suggest are due to something changing on your car, be it cam sensor, HT Coil pack causing noise, and probably fly by wire throttle issues.

I hope this makes some sense to you. You are welcome to PM me if you wish to discuss further.

i had the ECU on my 2014 Brooklands move into limp home mode in three occasion in the first three months, but only ever on start up, never when actually running.it sorted itself out by leaving it alone and coming back to it, or by disconnecting the battery . The ECU Morgan replaced the ECU on one of the many trips back to the factory occasioned by my threat to,reject the car as unfit for purpose; it had a host of other faults , non golden daffodils . It is currently on the third body ECU and the upgraded ECU to cure the Rev overhang which I had always deemed to be a serious safety flaw rather than a "characteristic " was fitted in the spring . I have tomsay it has transformed the car, it makes it a joy to drive and one can use all the power to nip in and out of traffic without having to worry as was the case before . It has also markedly improved the mpg, driven with spirit returns 30 and gently but quickly on longer runs about 33. My advice however is hold Morgan to account for their failures and don't ace of excuses from either the MMC or any of their dealers. No other motor manufacturer would get away with sending out poorly prepared expensive new cars .

Frank, Glad to hear the ECU upgrade sorted out the issues on your car and is now fun and safe to drive. I get similar MPG figures.

How many 3.7L Roadsters are there?

From what I read the ECU supplied by Ford isn't fit for purpose in the way Morgan use the engine and there may also be other problems with the way the ECU communicates with certain sensors.

BUT Ford supply the engine "as is" on a crate with no particular guarantee of suitability. So Morgan are between a rock and a hard place, Ford are not interested so MMC has to deal with the problem.

Sadly in many ways it is a repeat of the M3W technical problems. Both would seem to be caused by insufficient testing before product launch.

If sales numbers are small I think that the 3.7 Roadster should be allowed to die.

I had this rattle on mine - and I know of at least 3 other 3.7 owners who had the same at around 3k rpm... I emailed the factory several times (no reply) and the engine importer said 'no comment'. I also took it to Revolve Engineering who prepared the ECU and had them turn off the variable valve system via software - it still made the noise - so I turned it back on. A company who prepares these engines for racing in Nobles said part of their preparation involved dispensing with the variable valve timing completely.....

I wrote to Aero Racing twice (who take the timing chain out I believe and replace it with another), but never had the courtesy of a reply.

I don't think it's ECU related - but I could be wrong. I think it's the plastic guides on the timing chain hitting the sides of the front of the engine block. Something you wouldn't hear in a Mustang due to sound deadening. Again, I could be wrong, it's really hard to diagnose, particularly with zero support or interest from the factory.

I bought a Plus 8 in the end as I couldn't live with it. I lost £25k on the Roadster which was virtually brand new.

I'm very sad to hear these tales of woe. Would it not be feasible for MMC to go to Omex (or SBD, Raceline, or whoever) and negotiate the supply of engines suitably set up for their cars? MMC would avoid the costs of trying to do their own engine development, they could transfer the risk to the (presumably more expert) engine supplier, and avoid all this grief with their customers?

I accept that my setup is not typical, but if Kevin Vernon, Stuart Halstead, and John Ravenscroft could come up with the Ecotec VVTi conversion which has worked brilliantly in my car for the last 35k miles, I struggle to see why MMC cannot engage someone to do something similar for all their engines rather than relying on stock manufacturer offerings and tackling issues on a case-by-case basis?