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Aug 24th, 2023
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,615 Likes: 1
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,615 Likes: 1 |
quote=Hamwich] Give me the evidence that is not based on computer models. The arctic sea ice gained 30% in 2013 and there has been no global increase in average temperature for over a decade. Your graph shows concentrations of co2 but these levels have been seen before in years gone by. Did ancient man have diesel engines etc. In 1843 they were convinced of a northwest passage because of warming but they got stuck. Report in the Times of the day. Probably the best site that I have found that presents the evidence well and debunks the AGW denialist claims is this one: http://www.skepticalscience.comAgood site for deniers is this one [url=Http://www.whatsupwiththat.com][url=Http://www.whatsupwiththat.com][url=Http://www.whatsupwiththat.com]Http://www.whatsupwiththat.com[/url][/url][/url] [/quote]
John
1992 plus4 connaught green
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 14,976 Likes: 1
Member of the Inner Circle
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Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 14,976 Likes: 1 |
Richard
1976 4/4 4 Seater
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,868 Likes: 138
Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
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Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,868 Likes: 138 |
Whilst I'm all in favour of everyone using fossil fuels as economically as possible, and reducing as much as we can the pollution of our planet, I find the intolerant attitude of global warming enthusiasts towards other people who are not true believers rather disquieting. The implication that they have all the answers displays a remarkably arrogant approach to the issue.
Computer models of the climate do not take the indirect effects of solar activity into account when calculating the change in global climate. Human activity counts for about 5% of carbon dioxide emitted into the atmosphere each year, yet the sun accounts for all of the energy striking the Earth and driving it's climate, ocean currents and atmosphere.
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to support the argument that the main driver of global temperature is solar activity. When Erik the Red founded his settlements in Greenland over 1000 years ago the temperatures there were considerably higher than in the present day; this coincided with high levels of sunspot activity. Likewise, the "little ice age" of the late 17th century occurred when there was remarkably little solar activity.
Despite what the climate change industry would have us believe, we just don't know how the Earth’s climate really changes over time, nor how changes in solar activity drive climate change. From a scientific point of view I find the intolerance towards alternative opinion totally unacceptable.
Oh, and the recent VW scandal shows how obsession with only one aspect of pollution (CO2) can lead our political masters to encourage us all to drive diesel cars, totally ignoring all the other (maybe far worse) toxic pollution that they produce. I started out many years ago as a AGW skeptic, and as time has gone past I have become more and more persuaded by the weight of the evidence. I always found it disturbing that many of the denialist/skepticarguments seemed to me to be driven by an unwillingness to change or to consider treading lightly on the planet - something which always seemed to me good engineering practice. The solar activity argument is interesting. If solar activity is driving the proportion of atmospheric CO2, what is the mechanism that causes this to increase whilst total solar output has been decreasing, which is what is happening? But we all have our own stances on this, whatever we as individuals do is likely to have no overall effect, and so the way I see it we just have to find a path through life that allows us to sleep at night with a clear conscience.
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,794 Likes: 14
Formerly known as Aldermog Member of the Inner Circle
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Formerly known as Aldermog Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,794 Likes: 14 |
[.......whatever we as individuals do is likely to have no overall effect, and so the way I see it we just have to find a path through life that allows us to sleep at night with a clear conscience. I agree 100%.
Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,232 Likes: 125
Charter Member
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Charter Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,232 Likes: 125 |
Just found this interesting piece - http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/miran...6-1227555674611Worth a read. Look forward to the outcome of the peer review.
Paul
Costock, UK
2014 4/4 Rolls Royce Garnet Red
Disco 5
Teddy - 17h1 Irish Draught cross
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,646
Needs to Get Out More!
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Needs to Get Out More!
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,646 |
I did start off by saying that it's only right that we should do our utmost to husband our remaining hydrocarbons carefully and to do our best to minimise pollution; on an increasingly crowded planet it's a no brainer.
I'm not suggesting that the increase in atmospheric CO2 levels is down to solar activity. I'm suggesting that sunspot activity is the main driver of global temperatures.
The main point I was trying to make was that the obsession with CO2 emissions, by encouraging a large increase in the use of diesel engines has led to the unintended consequence of an increase in other forms of more noxious pollution. The road to hell (as they say) is paved with good intentions.
Oh, and while we're on the subject of climate change, I'm as used to being lectured about it on a daily basis by some zealot or other as the next man, but did any of you see Charlotte Church on Question Time last Thursday ? She really took the biscuit, stunning the audience into silence by suggesting that one of the main causes of the conflict in Syria was global warming. I've heard plenty of rubbish spouted by b-list so-called celebs invited onto the show, but she really out did them all.
Last edited by pandy; 08/10/15 07:47 AM.
Giles. Mogless in Paris.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,342 Likes: 91
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,342 Likes: 91 |
Here is an alternative view on global warming and the reasons why. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_climatechange60.htmFor me as a layman it sounds at least plausible that it could work this way. What I know is, that Mr. Svensmark was attacked by religious planet savers when he published his theory first.
'14 4/4 graphite grey
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,868 Likes: 138
Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
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Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,868 Likes: 138 |
I think all these alternative theories are interesting, and the great thing about the scientific method is that they can be peer reviewed, tested, validated, and if they provide a better explanation (i.e. one that better matched the observations) then the old theories can be discarded and the better theories adopted. My understanding of the weakness of Svensmark's theory is that it does not match the observations, since solar activity and the amount of cosmic rays reaching Earth have remained pretty flat over the last 60 years:  The dangers of course come when one theory or another is seized upon by political interests and used to further their agenda - and as we know, when politicians are forced to act, they will usually pick the path of least resistance.
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,232 Likes: 125
Charter Member
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Charter Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,232 Likes: 125 |
I believe that the politicians have been trying to sell us the wrong problem.
It is indisputable that we live on a planet with finite resources. We will have fully exhausted all oil and coal reserves in a relatively short period of time - a few hundred years. Within the next 50 or so years, we need to get to a point where our limited oil and coal reserves (assuming there is any left) are being used for the purposes which only they can fulfill. And that means a migration to solar, wind, tidal and nuclear power based energy leaving the remaining hydrocarbons to be used as raw materials.
Paul
Costock, UK
2014 4/4 Rolls Royce Garnet Red
Disco 5
Teddy - 17h1 Irish Draught cross
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,891 Likes: 22
Charter Member
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Charter Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,891 Likes: 22 |
Back to the tests and emission levels at the tailpipe. I always thought that VW could not be alone in exceeding NOX output levels and this report confirms it. It now looks very much as if VW group chose the ECU programming fiddle to avoid having to use the same $300 per car technology that other makers have adopted to meet the official US test . Even then none of the car meet the NOX output targets in the real world.
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