Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 Urgent warning Empire kit

I wouldn't get a plate that low into the drive at my French house (where my M3W lives). I am thinking of getting a motorcycle size font plate for the front, when I change it from UK to French registration next year, if I even need a front plate at all. I am doing the change to avoid having to bring it back each year for an MOT. Did you lower it with shorter springs or some other way?

I have the Spax adjustable dampers which are set quite firm but still compliant.

This is the answer i got from Paul Jacobs:

I was at Bills workshop only yesterday to discuss the risers with him and without being able to examine any in situ, he is still at a complete loss as to why a couple should fail if they were tight at all times.

He feels that if they are allowed to become loose, this would then contribute to metal fatigue as it is moved back and forwards each time the steering is turned, but if the face of the riser is tight to the steering arm, there can be no movement, so no metal fatigue.

He did wonder if the powder coating on the steering arm had disintegrated after the riser was fitted, this would then allow it to move slightly? If it is tight then there should be no rust showing. He also suggested that if there is any gap whatsoever, it could then sit on a hardened steel thrust washer of the appropriate thickness to fill the gap.

He has consulted his CNC supplier who categorically states that the force needed to sheer the riser, if properly tightened would be around 3 tons [3000kgs?] which is quite some force and beyond what would need to be applied to turn the steering arms in normal use.

As I stated in my post, if people are concerned, they must stop using the riser and return to the standard track rod ends, although this will of course return partially to the problem of bump steer, unless the car ride height is lowered.

There is of course the alternative of the factory comfort riser kit, with the top brace. That is the route I will probably go. With the very narrow mountain roads around my house in France, the danger is with a truck coming towards you, you have to pull fully into the right side of the road. In my LHD car, you cannot see the right hand wheel, so it is easy to get too far onto the edge of the tarmac. This is often really bumpy with tree roots, which can then throw you towards the oncoming truck. My brother has changed to RHD for his Mk.2 M3W in France, as it makes it easier to place the car on narrow roads.

Wilson

The problem is that the design of the riser requires two mating surfaces on different planes to fit together perfectly with the corresponding surfaces of the steering arm. Even if Empire were to be able to produce their riser perfectly to zero tolerance specs, it is unlikely that the steering arms could be made to such precision. Also, the diameter of the bolt seems a bit small, especially considering the increased leverage put on the assembly due to the riser's added length. Upgrading the quality of the material to a higher spec couldn't hurt.

If the riser were to be a sliding fit on the bolt, so that the tapered end of the bolt could be drawn into the steering arm securely first, without interference from the riser, then the top nut could tighten the tie rod and riser together. This would probably require the bolt to have an Allen socket at it's top end, (similar to a grub screw), rather than the current plain threaded stud, so that the nut on the bottom end of the steering arm could be properly tightened to pull the bolt into the taper. Probably the steering arm should be reamed to assure it has the right degree of taper for a proper fit, as well, since some posts here have indicated that not all of the OEM steering arms are created equal.

Rather than expressing surprise or disbelief that the bolt could have failed, or trying to blame the failure on other parties, perhaps Empire should try contacting owners of their kits to warn them of a potential failure, maybe even asking for the return of failed parts for factory inspection. This list could be helpful should they decide to go this route.

Just my opinion,
Bill in FtL

I think the Empire kit needs a top brace just like the factory kit and any other solution is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

easier i think to get new pivots with correct height

Bill, you are right.

In Germany, we call this "Doppelpassung" and during my engineering studies, one of the first things, my professor in mechanical construction taught us, was to never never never construct such "solutions".

Achim

Just shows that all the moaning about the Morgan engineers and how the Empire solution was such a perfect solution was not such a great idea after all!!!!!!!!

Yes the original Morgan effort was pretty awful, but they seem to have corrected their folly somewhat better than what was the supposed perfect design!!!

A more humble response from Empire was required!!!!!