Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Simmonds Hood

I believe Boshly is correct. Would any other car maker supply a convertible without a hood and either give the new owner a discount or supply them the hood and associated parts to sell on eBay? There is also much talk of Morgan Motor Company, is the purchase of a new Mog not done through the dealer network? If a discount for lack of hood is in question, would this not be for the individual salesperson at the dealership to negotiate by taking a reduction in their commission on the sale?

<<However, insisting that someone provides a roofless car at a discount....>>

Is that me? Perforce a little over harsh I would have thought?

I did not "insist" that they sell me a roofless car. I asked them to. They said yes. I did ask if they could reduce the cost of the car by the cost of the Hood. They said no. Fair enough, it was worth a try. It wasn't even the fact they also would not give me the hood (which I had paid for remember), it was the attitude I got when I asked that rankled a bit later.
(As a reminder in 2002, Morgan described their product offering as bespoke).

<<PPS try asking Ferrari for a 430 Spider without a roof>>

Are Ferraris built to order?. If yes then I would be pretty surprised that if you ordered a Ferrari but told then not to bother fitting a hood that they would have an issue.

<<PPPS I have had nothing but great personal service from the factory personnell>>

I am delighted for you. Did you buy your car direct from the factory? On my drive back to Jersey it wasn't things like picking up the fact that a push-rod was stuck in the engine making a huge ticking noise that bothered me so much (despite the fact that I had to ship the car back to the mainland to get it fixed). It was a few days later when I phoned in my 14 item snagging list. One of the items was that the brake pedal rubber came-off on the way to the Ferry and got jammed under the brake. "Oh they all do that sir, glue it back on with some evostick". Hold on, if they know that the brake pedal rubber falls off why don't the MMC glue it on?. The seemingly expensive engine did not bother me, it should have been picked up but it was not a common fault. It was the brake pedal rubber that I found annoying. I have a number of other examples but mustn't go on.

Sadly I have heard of too many people with similar (actually much worse) experiences from the factory to believe my experience(s) were a one-off. But I have also had some good things as well - after I got the car back from the warranty work, I spotted that the rubber grommets under the sidelights had been replaced. They had been a bit grotty but I had not put them on my list. I was very impressed with that level of detail.

But - no doubt to everyones relief - I won't post on this topic again it's getting a bit bad tempered.

Havent read the rest of your post, yet, but before I do and forget, no it wasnt you, t'was a rhetorical statement. I referred to you where they acceded to your request. Sometimes they do

I will now go and read what else you have said.

Yes they are built to order, and I am pretty sure you would not get a car without a roof.



Yes I did, it was absolutely fine.



Shame and I agree with you in general. I wasnt however commenting on the level of service you have (or havent) received, just that if we start asking the factory to "give us their stance", in writing no doubt, we will lose a lot of what makes the whole Morgan experience.

I did of course comment about my own factory experience to maybe offer a balance. I am more than aware that no Company on Earth can offer great service all the time, its just how often they do and how they manage it when they dont get it right that makes the difference.



Of course I have heard of bad experiences, but lots of good ones as well. Personally I will always have my cars serviced there and not at the dealers. I have had a few bad experiences at the dealers. So I guess its all swings and roundabouts.



I havent read all the replies above (yet) but have seen no "bad-tempers" myself, maybe you refer to others? I certainly have not lost my temeper, I just hate the fact that we live in a Nanny State where everyone has to be 'accountable' and scared to go that little bit extra in case the PC/H&S/EU/"Ambulance chasing" Police get hold of them.

It was in response to another quote asking for MMC to make a stance. Even then I may have taken the quote too literally but its just a bug-bear of mine.

As I (hopefully) made clear, I just love the atmosphere and accessibility of the factory and would hate to see that disappear.

Hi Mike

maybe I did not make my point clear, though on re-reading I think I did

I have no qualms about you asking for the roof to be left off. As I think I said, some like Brian V will get it that way. You may, or may not. Whether you get a discount or not I have no idea. Again you may or may not. I certainly would have asked for one in those circumstances. I would accept if one is not forthcoming.

What I did object to was "asking the Company for their official stance" as if you do, there is a strong likelihood that they may post an official stance that "no you cant have the car withiout a hood" as someone will have looked at some Brussles directive or some H&S or Legal obstruction and then the Brian v's of this world will also not get it ever, at anytime. Is that clearer? [said in a genuine queryingly way and not a condescending or patronising manner ]

I would add that I have always been treated with more fairness and respect by MMC than probably every other car dealer that I have dealt with. I have of course not dealt with any other factories, just visited them.

On re-reading again my post, I guess my initial "PS" comes across a bit harsh, and my apologies if any offence is taken. I don't wish to re-iterate yet again, and bore everyone in the process, but I just want to maintain the great atmosphere we have.

I took no offense at all and indeed appreciate all you say about Morgan. I think forum posts can come over as being a bit more stroppy than intended. So I hope that no one took offense whilst I tried to make my point.

I will ask for the the unfitted hood when the time comes and will be interested to see the outcome. I suspect that I will be a little more forceful than some have been so far. As far as I'm concerned if you pay for it you should get it.

Regards

Mike

As the hoods are fitted to the car, you may find it is of no particular use as it won't necessarily fit another car. It will be of no use to cars having an old style hood as they don't have holes for the bonnet-style catches at the rear. As the new style hood is fairly new, there won't be many owners needing to replace theirs, even if it would fit. Factor in your choice of colour and the liklihood of selling it is probably quite slim. Once you have the Simmonds hood fitted it won't fit your car so you may as well throw it in a skip. Something of a Pyrrhic victory methinks.

The factory hood is of equal quality to the Simmonds one. It has disadvantages but so does the Simmonds hood. Having examined the Simmonds hood at the open-day on Saturday, I believe that on balance the factory hood is the better of the two. However, it is undoubtedly a good bit of kit for someone who has a traditional style hood. As you're probably going to have to pay for it you may as well try using it.

I would echo Boshly's sentiments about not wanting to spoil the great atmosphere when you visit the factory. If you are unhappy about the prospect of having to pay for a hood and not being supplied with one, you can always buy a second-hand car or another marque. Charging for leaving things off isn't unknown.

I hadn't taken this into consideration.



Are you suggesting that in Morgan's case we shouldn't kick up a fuss when they let us down? Surely all good relationships are built on honesty and that means telling others exactly how we feel.

As a soon to be new Morgan owner I've learned a lot from this thread. Thanks everyone.

Regards

Mike

Change of subject -

With experience in hand-made frames and hoods, and their recent departure into making toys, how long before MMC start making retro style prams?

Add in a Morgan mobility scooter (using 'Lifecar' technology?) and they'll have us covered from cradle to grave. Now there's a thought - a Morgan hearse (motto: "We'll get you to the church on time"...).

I'd pre-book one! So much more elegant than improvising with the carrier and bungee straps, even for an ex-biker.

I'll add a few comments: -

1) the way Paul was treated - or more importantly, the approach (attitude) that was taken in rebuffing his request was unacceptable. Paul has been a member of this forum for a long period of time and has never been anything other than down to earth and good humoured; therefore, I have no reason to doubt his perception of the event (my comments are mirrored by those who have met Paul). With this in mind, the situation was handled poorly and customers have the right to expect a higher level of service and professionalism.

2) Asking for modifications to cars - I tried with my first Aero 8 and was told by the dealer that the car had to leave the factory as stock due to type approval. I had asked for two modifications - the seat to be lowered and the OEM mirror to be replaced by a classic chrome mirror as fitted to the classic range. On both points I was rebuffed by the dealer. The mirror on the grounds of homologation and on the lowering of the seat because in the case of an accident the seat would be lower than the designated parameters set when the airbag was tested (the inference was that I could sue ). Needless to say the car was delivered as standard and the mirror installed aftermarket (the seat is a longer story and nothing to do with MMC).

3) Teething problems. The one piece of advice I would give any new owner (on the purchase of their first Morgan) is to expect to have some items that need correcting during the break-in service. There are problems with machine build cars and as Morgans are made by hand, and humans are less perfect at assembling mechanical products than machines, there will be teething issues.

The break-in service serves too purposes - to catch and address these minor issues (often things such as hood fit, rattles, squeeks, etc) and to tighten all the bolts, nuts, screws, etc, after the car has been driven on road for a number of miles. Once sorted, Morgans are (for the most part) bullet proof and more reliable than most; however, they do often require fettling when bought from new.