Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Tata Steel

I don't think anyone would seriously disagree with the principle, but it can be difficult to see the government's logic sometimes. Renewing Trident, for example, is seen as A Good Thing because:

1. It is a strategic asset for the UK
2. It costs 'only' £120bn
3. It would safeguard 6,000 jobs

but despite the fact that a healthy steel industry

1. Would also be a strategic asset for the UK
2. Would cost only £6 to £10bn
3. Would safeguard > 15,000 jobs

it's somehow undeserving of support?

Meanwhile, the banks managed to receive (according to the National Audit Office) over a Thousand Billion pounds from the taxpayer - and they won't see all of it back, ever.

Interesting discussion chaps. I'm learning some aspects that I wasn't entirely clear about before reading this thread.
I take my hat off to you all for contributing in an enthusiastic yet respectful way.
I don't have anything to add at the moment, but just wanted to hold my hand up in the crowd and say thanks fellas.

Bottom line.....I hope we can keep our country afloat as we move forward, and our people in work so they can continue to put food on the table for their families....and keep our crafts/skills intact for future generations!

Tim - I agree that government logic is rarely the same as most others, but that doesn't change the fact that any private company needs the lifeblood of cash in order to survive.

If the government wish to provide the cash on an ongoing basis, so be it, but that strikes me as nationalisation and not just support for a private entity. I have no problem with them doing that - particularly as I don't live in the UK!!! - but the bill may well turn out to be higher than even the UK bank bailout (£1M a day plus refurbishment cost!!)

Cheers!

Wonder if the work force would be willing to take a pay cut to save jobs and the works for the future. Or is that a silly suggestion in this day and age.

Sounds like a common sense solution to me but that's been in short supply for a generation at least...

I agree there have been some very insightful remarks and comments about the steel situation. However what this thread and any other thread cannot do is to convey the devastation and feeling of hopelessness that exists when jobs are lost and communities are shattered. I have seen and felt it first hand, the effects are felt for generations afterwards and I'd go as far as to say they never recover fully.
Look around at the corruption that has been uncovered over the last few days, look back at the billions of pounds that have been used to bail out banks. How about the sale of the countries assets, water, electricity, gas, Post Office, etc. Most working class people can't afford to buy shares, they live week to week, is this even handed.
How do you think these workers feel when they have done everything that has been asked of them and it hasn't worked, even now help is what they are asking for not handouts.
I started this post with the full intention of not getting drawn into the debate I knew would follow, I've failed. Please don't forget the original intention and support the petition if you can.
Peter.

Market forces are manipulated on a global scale by countries with industry and income to protect. Generally the decisions are made by politicians/rulers.
Private companies then have to compete in this manipulated marketplace, Tata having to sell at the market price clearly manipulated by China. Despite massive downturn in their steel sector they have decided to maintain production to protect from closures and job losses in China, hence dumping of excess tonnage.
Look at the oil industry for a comparison.
Tata are UK based with UK costs to produce yet must sell at market price set by Chinese politicians. Not a level playing field!
Hence tarifs and protectionism.
Political and economic strategy fuels many decisions made by Governments...banks protection, HS2, green issues re piwer etc. If steel manufacture is thought to be strategically important then it needs to be kept.
If Port Talbot is bought by the "favourite" in the picture then the plant will change. Replacement of blast furnace/BOS plant by electric arc furnaces melting scrap is the alternative looking likely. As per Alpha Steel in Newprt.
Jobs would still go but far less than closure.
Teifistar describes the effects on the locality. Having been through similar myself I concur fully with the devastating effect on the whole of South Wales.
15,000 jobs gone........
Initial assistance re redundancy...enhanced or basic legal level?
Retraining schemes to keep job losers off the unemployment register and trained to do what?
Supplier businesses closing....no extra benefits to those employees as not Tata employees.
Shops, businesses in the town closing.
Repossessions of houses/cars etc.
Benefits paid massively increased after redundancy money has gone.
A bleak picture but the reality.
You want work? Where? Move house,lose money on the sale, commute LONG distance?
This is the problem of having one large employer in an area, if it goes the area dies.
The valleys area is still struggling after pit closures years ago.
I sincerely hope the plant is sold and Government assists in the sale through grants, loans, planning consent easing etc.. Government needs to recognise that the area is too dependant on one industry and start to get diversity in the local economy over a period of time.
Look to the EU and its policies and rules. Cameron needs to apologise for vetoing trade tarifs for steel a short while ago and not be a slave to " market forces" that are manipulated by unscrupulous countries.
Big can be good at times but when it goes wrong the effects are horrific.
There....rant over.

Yes I agree, except to point out that the UK can be as unscrupulous as any other country when it suits. I swore I wouldn't get into this debate but here goes. There are alternatives to nationalisation or just letting the whole thing sink. But you need to have a government that is not ideologically wedded to market forces and has some idea of the cost of sitting back and doing nothing e.g. devastated communities and all of the associated costs. In 1990 Austria had a state owned
steel industry that was loss making and inefficient. By any judgement it should have been closed down and the taxpayers relieved of their burden. But by careful steps of privatisation and strategic purchases the industry now has a turnover of 11 billion dollars a year, admittedly tight profits at the moment, but employs 46,400 people worldwide, half of them in Austria. It can be done. But you don't get there by blaming others or by abandoning communities. There are some signs the UK government might understand this so lets hope they take the long term view. It's just wrong to do nothing and it's equally wrong to blame the EU. Rant over. From someone who is neither an EU or UK citizen.

It is looking as if Port Talbot can be sold.
In the deal it would convert from Blast furnace / Boss production to arc furnaces melting scrap.
There would still likely be job losses but in reduced numbers, staff can be retrained at the buyers Newport plant..Alpha Steel.
It is looking as if Politicians are assisting as a third party and forms of grants/loans are possible.
I sincerely hope it goes ahead.
To simply stick to market forces blindly is not good.
I agree with auster re a strategic view of the industry and help to maintain it. Nationalisation? No.
That has too many interfering political decisions overriding commercial ones within the strategic scenario.

Thats good news indeed.

Agree too that the Gvt should be helping with soft loans/power supply rates/retraining etc etc

Cannot bear to see all those communities under such threat.

The cost of Benefits would be astronomical!