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Wales
by Joske Vermeule, September 1
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Forums39
Topics49,896
Posts837,969
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Most Online1,063 Jun 14th, 2026
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,646
Needs to Get Out More!
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Needs to Get Out More!
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,646 |
It's hardly surprising if the makers of Porkers might not be above a few pork pies.....
Giles. Mogless in Paris.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 37,474 Likes: 988
Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
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Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 37,474 Likes: 988 |
The natural progression of this trail will take us to Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti one assumes  .
2009 4/4 Sport Henrietta 1999 Indigo Blue +8 2009 4/4 Sport Green prev 1993 Con Green +8 prev
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,552 Likes: 134
Needs to Get Out More!
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Needs to Get Out More!
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,552 Likes: 134 |
I often wonder at what goes on behind the scenes with political/regulatory legislation. The UK has professional lobbyists pushing a particular case and I wouldn't be surprised that over the years emissions regulations have come about as compromises built on influence of such groups. The mismatch of reported mpg of cars based on the "standardised" lab tests versus real life mpg seems to be a symptom of such compromises. I remember car mpg being pushed as a major selling point until questions about the achievability began to be asked. There has been back tracking to stress in small print that they are for comparison only. Marketing clearly diluting the negativity of the early "misquoting". I wonder if the car makers had influence on the test but suddenly had loopholes closed. If the test criteria could be constructed to leave room for "cheat options" then car makers had options to get benefitial results leading to better sales. Perhaps even keep improvements secret in the background until they needed them to gain an edge. The bottom line is profit. Decisions will be made appropriately. Influence will be wielded to suit.
Plus Four MY23 Furka Rouge
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 28,909 Likes: 354
Salty Sea Dog Member of the Inner Circle
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Salty Sea Dog Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 28,909 Likes: 354 |
EV and the demise of internal combustion engines?
Electric vehicles poised for wider adoption breakthrough within five years
By Tereza Pultarova
Published Thursday, December 8, 2016 Electric vehicles could become mainstream in less than five years, as advances in battery technology and the introduction of new light-weight materials promise to cut production cost and increase range.
The battery in an electric vehicle currently accounts for approximately 50 per cent of the price of the vehicle, but these costs are falling sharply. During 2015, the cost has fallen by 35 per cent and industry leader Tesla says they are already making batteries for less than $190/kWh.
“What we are seeing is the capability of electric vehicles to come up and the cost come down. What we are headed for is sort of a 200-mile range for £20,000 in 2020,” said Erik Fairbairne, CEO of crowd-funded electric charging company POD Point.
“In the next few years as we are heading to 2020, all of a sudden the electric vehicles’ capability and the electric vehicles’ price will reach a sweet spot where we will see massive adoption of electric vehicles and that’s not very far away.”
Other industry insiders forecast a less rapid shift, but still expect a major turning point within the next decade. BMW vice president of electric-powertrain development Stefan Juraschek recently told journalists he expects doubling of battery capacity in seven years’ time. Before that, Juraschek said, the appeal of EVs to the mass-market customer will remain limited.
Ford agrees with BMW, expecting battery prices to drop below $100 per kWh by 2025, at which point electric vehicles are expected to become cost competitive with internal combustion engines.
In Europe, however, electric vehicle technology may receive a major push from the European Commission’s legislation coming to force in 2020. All new vehicles introduced by manufacturers from 2020 onwards will have to emit no more than 95 grams of CO2 per kg of vehicle weight. Car makers will be severely penalised for every excess.
“That’s going to place a huge cost burden on manufacturers of vehicles to actually be able to meet those emissions targets,” said Mark Victory, Editor of the ICIS Global Automotive Report.
“Since the VW diesel scandal, regulations around emission assessing have changed. In real-world tests, diesel cannot hit the nitrous oxide emission standards without significant technology investment and a significant amount of expensive work, which means the manufacturers will all have to start looking at electric vehicles and light weight.”
Victory believes that the electric vehicle sector will soon adopt a new strategy for enhancing vehicle range – another major obstacle for electric car adoption, along with high prices. This new strategy doesn’t have anything to do with battery technology itself but with decreasing the weight of the vehicles through the use of light-weight materials. The most promising of these materials is carbon fibre, already in use in the aerospace sector but still waiting for its debut in car manufacturing.
“The most exciting thing about carbon fibre is that it is strong enough to replace the traditional metal chassis, but it’s about 30 per cent lighter than aluminium,” Victory said.
“If you’re looking at battery life in electric vehicles then the easiest [option], from the technical design point of view, to increase the range of an electric vehicle is to lower its weight. The more you lower the weight, the higher the range of the vehicle.”
Until recently, carbon fibre has not been considered due to its high price. A carbon fibre electric vehicle might offer a longer range, but it would be much less affordable then an aluminium-based one. However, Victory said, times are changing and the carbon fibre industry is making strides to make the material more attractive.
“An awful lot is changing in the market. If you looked a year ago, the answer would be that it’s all too expensive,” said Victory. “But we are seeing new techniques being developed by the industry to bring the cost of carbon fibre down, such as woven carbon fibre instead of knitting and continuous fibre-reinforced thermoplastic (CFRTP) composites.”
In parallel, the price of metals such as aluminium is going up. Only a year ago the price of carbon fibre was twice that of aluminium, but the situation today is very different.
Increasing battery performance together with reducing vehicle weight will help alleviate the infamous range anxiety, a major obstacle for electric vehicle uptake.
New infrastructure is also needed to make drivers confident that they can get their charge whenever and wherever they need.
In addition to superchargers that mimic the petrol station experience by allowing drivers to recharge their empty batteries in a very short period of time, companies are focusing on creating a dense network of charging points that would allow slower-rate recharging whenever the cars are parked.
“If you think about a typical car, it’s probably not used for 90 per cent of its life,” said Fairbairne. “What we are doing is to put charge points to three fundamental places. We put them into homes, we put them into people’s work places and we put them to destinations such as retailers and leisure centres or gyms. We want to see a charger everywhere where you can park for an hour or more.”
Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW and Ford recently announced a joint project to roll out thousands of fast-charging stations across Europe to encourage electric vehicle adoption. The four automakers are following in the footsteps of Tesla, which started building its own super-charger network in 2012.
Political support is also gradually aligning behind electric vehicles. Faced with the inconvenient truth about the catastrophic effects of breathing heavily polluted air on people’s health - and the repercussions of this on the economy - global cities are producing strategies to encourage the uptake of cleaner cars. In central London, an Ultra Low Emission Zone will be introduced in 2020, requiring drivers to either switch to hybrid or electric vehicles or pay high fees for entering the Zone.
In November, the UK government announced a £390m pool of funding to encourage the uptake of electric vehicles. Meanwhile, the German Bundesrat passed a resolution in October calling for an EU-wide ban on combustion engine cars by 2030. Though non-binding, the resolution is a clear sign of the growing momentum behind electric vehicle technology.
Experts also say that the arrival of autonomous cars will provide further stimulus to the electric vehicle industry, as the technology is better suited for driverless cars as well as car sharing schemes due to the lower maintenance requirements.
Currently, only about 1.5 per cent of new cars sold in the UK are electric, but Fairbairne forecasts exponential growth: “Although it will have taken us maybe six or seven years to get from nought to maybe six or seven per cent adoption of electric cars in 2020, what we will then see is a really rapid adoption over the next ten years.
“I think that most of us will be buying purely electric vehicles by 2030. We are going to see a massive ramp-up from 2020 because electric vehicles will have the capability for the cost that they need and that’s very, very close by.”
So, soon time to sell the Morgan and LR before they become worthless / unusable?? 
Graham (G4FUJ)
Sold L44FOR 4/4 Giallo Fly '11 MINI Countryman Cooper D All4 '90 LR 90 SW
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,265 Likes: 321
Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
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Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,265 Likes: 321 |
So, soon time to sell the Morgan and LR before they become worthless / unusable?? The electricity industry is working on predictions of around 40% of all road vehicles being EV by 2035. I think anything diesel will be pretty worthless in a few years, and the cost of the fuel will be pretty high, but I think petrol will continue to be available and although the price will inevitably go up, it should be widely used. I think the biggest threat to our cars is going to come from legislation aimed against older cars, but that will focus on city usage. I reckon overall we'll be ok for the next 10 years at least.
Tim H. 1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,535 Likes: 321
Smile, it confuses them Member of the Inner Circle
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Smile, it confuses them Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,535 Likes: 321 |
I love V8's and petrol for my main car. I see the benefit of Diesel for long haul or transport engines if done well. I would prefer range extender like BMW i3/i8 to reduce the risk out of the equation, perhaps with a tiny rotary to provide optimised power generation in a smaller package.
There are a number of elephants not being discussed.
1. Availability of charging infrastructure on the the scale this would need. At present California is ahead in electric cars from my visibility. The owners are already bitching (yes I DO mean bitching) about lazy thoughtless people who don't remove their car as soon as it is 90 or 100% charged to free the unit for them and others. The volume of cars will means a significant number of attachments and a better organised program for use of them. It will be like petrol wars when there was a shortage and rationing.
2. Charging times for these cars requires that super-capacitor benefit to make them more broadly appealing. I could not really plan 2-3 hours into my day easily. I guess in the long term it could be improved but this requires next generation battery tech. Or the REX needs to provide that flexibility.
I also worry about the fire and rescue services when these are caught in a significant accident. Extensive training is going to be required on what to approach and what to avoid.
Servicing will be driven further into the proprietary channels I guess ?
There is a significant adjust to be made in many other sectors. Tesla is ahead and being used as a bit of a learning curve but they are in a specific market segment (quite rich) and the volumes are not yet there. Even they are still learning as the taxi drivers as Schipol airport will tell you. Ask them about the back axle noise !
It will happen, you can see from the number of manufacturers now doing it. I just think that there are elements not being discussed in full yet.
Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,654 Likes: 124
Part of the Furniture
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Part of the Furniture
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,654 Likes: 124 |
2021 Lapis Blue Plus 6  You know it makes sense!  2016 Carmine Red 991.2 C4S
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,749 Likes: 158
Member of the Inner Circle
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Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,749 Likes: 158 |
I think the biggest threat to our cars is going to come from legislation aimed against older cars, but that will focus on city usage.
I reckon overall we'll be ok for the next 10 years at least. Already happened here. My Euro 3 diesel (12 years old)can not enter the centre of Milan and may be banned entirely in many areas at times of high pollution. I will buy a new car at some time in the next 6 months and I can only hope that it will be ok for the next 10 years or so.
Peter
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 28,909 Likes: 354
Salty Sea Dog Member of the Inner Circle
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Salty Sea Dog Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 28,909 Likes: 354 |
Some of our buildings, e.g. Hook and Bracknell have a couple of vehicle charging points. Very much doubt that will come here in the "wilds of Gloucestershire" though...
Graham (G4FUJ)
Sold L44FOR 4/4 Giallo Fly '11 MINI Countryman Cooper D All4 '90 LR 90 SW
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,723 Likes: 2
Talk Morgan Sage
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Talk Morgan Sage
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,723 Likes: 2 |
Certainly one at MMC.. 
Steve
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