Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Tragedy in Las Vegas

I don't fear guns anymore than I fear a circular saw. Both are dangerous, but the bigger danger is the untrained emotional idiot behind a gun.
A gun is a lump of engineered metal that is incapable of independent action.

Shooting pistols at targets is like golf, pointless, but a personal challenge. I enjoy it when I'm in the USA. I learned to shoot with the Air Training Corps and I'm quite good at perforating paper targets.

I've fired a .38 Magnum, on a range. At 10 yards I got one out of 6 shots on a 12" square paper target. The recoil is fearsome. It is a useless toy.
So I expect a 44 Magnum is even more useless lump and would really hurt if dropped on your foot.

I also fired a Browning 9mm semi automatic pistol, I got all 12 shots on the target and a good group.

Overall pistols are decoration, in my view they have no real hunting, combat or any other sensible use, other than target shooting.
My friends in the USA say the best personal home defence weapon is a sawn off semi automatic shotgun, not a pistol.

The 2nd Amendment was all about legitimizing the illegal Minutemen militias that helped start and fight the revolution and providing a check/balance to the nation's standing army/government. It has been hijacked by the gun lobby--which has inordinate political influence here--to justify unfettered gun ownership. There is no justifiable reason for private citizens to own assault weapons or other high-firepower weaponry. The majority of US citizens apparently feel that gun control is necessary, but the gun lobby rules. It is madness. Trump expresses condolences, but says nothing about gun control. It will have to happen one day.
BTW, I live in Lexington, Massachusetts, where the town's minutemen sparked the first bloodshed of the revolution, in a state that now has among the strictest gun control laws in the country, and correspondingly low death statistics.

There’s no way back for the USA now. They’ll NEVER ban guns and the people will NEVER give them Up.
I used to shoot a .38 in a pistol club in Chelmsford. After 5 years I was really starting to improve when Dunblane happened and things changed. The target shooting community were used as scapegoats because they didn’t argue for their sport (how could anyone argue for keeping our pistols after that?)
The Police officer who let that madman keep his weapons despite evidence that he was unstable was never punished. I sincerely hope he hung his head in shame.
Dreadful business.
Simon

Absolutely awful news
As to gun laws, attitudes and gun control in the USA, I can recommend Michael Moore’s excellent documentary film ‘Bowling for Columbine’ which opened my eyes to the problems and issues

Thats incorrect. The Supreme Court has ruled that the right, which is part of the first ten ammendments incorporating the bill or rights, belongs to individuals. Ironically it was modelled on the UK bill of rights of 1689n which established the right of protestants to have arms for their defence. Ibn the UK that right has been taken away from us along with many other freedoms but not in the US. That said the right in the US is not unlimited and does not prevent state or national government regulating the issue. Many do regulate firearms, but not all.

As for why anyone would want to possess such weapons, the answer is the same as the reason anyone wants to possess 190 mph sports cars. Call it excitement, little boy syndrome, whatever.

The real puzzle to me is why anyone would do these mass shootings. What is the mentality / motive? Its just totally incomprehensible

In Australia pistol licences have been quite difficult to get and fully automatic weapons have been banned since the Second World War. It took several mass shootings, mainly gang warfare, and the Port Arthur massacre of 28–29 April 1996 in which 35 people were killed and 23 wounded to trigger real action. It came only a short while after the Dunblane massacre which probably reinforced the intent of the politicians.

The goverment instituted a huge buyback of weapons and all automatic and semi-automatic weapons were banned, even the number of shots in a magazine were limited. To my mind they went a little over the top in some cases. My father's non functioning antique air rifle would have required a licence and when my daughter found it in a cupboard, not knowing what it was, she surrendered it to the police.

In any case none of this stops criminal access to guns. Anyone who really wants one can still get it as shown by the Martin Place, Sydney hostage crisis the led to the death of three people and the injury of another 4 in the police raid.

I don't want to start a long discussion on this but I would point out the example of the Fifth Amendment that refers to the "person", ie the individual, whereas the Second Amendment refers to "the people", that is the state. Remember, the people who drafted the Constitution in 1787 did not speak English as we do today. Words had different meanings and emphasis.

It is no surprise that this has been discussed by the US judiciary (twice I believe) and gun control rejected. The National Rifle Association is the biggest Lobby Group on the face of the planet.

12,000 or so folks died from guns in the US in 2017, not counting suicides. (In my opinion, people bent on suicide will find a way, guns or no guns.) A horrible number and certainly higher than some other places in the world. No argument there.

However, over 40,000 died in vehicle accidents in the US in 2016, some 4 times as many. I think we should ban idiot drivers first, then worry about the guns.

Our politicians don't have the stomach to take on either issue. FYI, the type of guns allowed are determined by the various states. Many do ban assault rifles.

That’s a strange statement......cars are transport getting from A to B, road deaths are an unfortunate by product of that. The sole purpose of a gun is to fire bullets, how can that possibly compare?

It’s like the frankly ridiculous slogan “ guns don’t kill people, people kill people” what utter tosh ....... people WITH guns kill people.
Simon

simonjrw, your aversion against gun ownership is one point of view but where does it all start and where does it stop?
Your avatar shows a high powered car - obviously designd primarily for fun purpose. Deadly and dangerous when used the wrong way and maybe a high risk for other people than. Taking 40.000 lost lives in consideration there would be a good reason to ban your car...?

I'm a huntsman and own several different firearms and I do use them on a regular base. I know their killing power and I handle them carefully. I am not a supporter of guns for everyone and everywhere but I am very careful when general ownership ban discussion is comming up. It may be guns today, cars tomorrow and whatever next