Talk Morgan Forums Community Vehicle Talk (non-Morgan) New Tesla Roadster

Wouldn't the forces be exactly the same magnitude as those in a 60-0 stop in 2 seconds - which you could do in your +8 on standard tyres with no problem?

I suspect that managing the temperatures from continued high speed running, and the sidewall loading from high speed handling are typically the biggest challenges for performance car tyres - rather than straight line acceleration.

The 1.9 seconds to 60 is the base model. There will be optional performance upgrades just like on the other Tesla models.

It will be interesting to see the final UK price. The deposit for a Founders series is £189,000 or £38,000 for a standard. The £189,000 is not the final price, the confirmation of receipt only tells you that you have a reservation and final price etc will be confirmed.

I expect it will end up virtually the same ballpark price as the Huracan Spyder which was the car I was holding out for.

I anticipate ending up with just 2 cars to enable keeping a Roadster 2, the other being the GTN.

Whilst the car will potentially leave the Chirron and other Hypercars behind in the dust, I foresee a decent future for good high performance petrol cars. Doesn't matter that the electric ones might end up faster, more reliable etc etc. Just look at the quality high end mechanical watches (I have some that retail for more than a new 4/4), they still do well even when a £10 watch can be more accurate and a £500 Citizen probably the best of all worlds.

You have to admire the yanks full stop. Can you imagine such a,start up happening in the UK like tesla, Google, Apple etc have done in the US. We used to be like that once but no longer.

The burden of tax on businesses in the USA is effectively 20% and the bureaucratic burden of documentation, approvals, time for processing etc is very light. Germany has an effective tax burden on businesses of 15%, even lower.

I don't know how it works out in the UK but Italy has a nominal tax rate on businesses of about 45% (10% higher than the maximum nominal rate in the US) but various other taxes on companies have been calculated to bring the total tax burden to 65%. This also applies to individuals once you take into consideration all taxes paid. Couple this with the impossible bureaucratic load on business (and individuals) and it is easy to understand why economic recovery is slow in Italy.

I don't know much about the tax regime in the UK but I believe the burden is not far behind that of Italy. Britain also has a nominal tax rate on businesses that is about 10% higher than that in the US but I suspect there is less oportunity for deductions and that other taxes and government charges bring the total burden much higher. At least the bureaucratic load would not be as high as that in Italy.

Consider also that in America sales tax is generally around 6% but that the actual percentage of income that goes in sales tax is less than 2% of income. VAT is levied in a different way but is 20% in the UK and 22% in Italy.

My conclusion is that if you want to get an economy moving the only way to do it is to reduce effective tax rates and bureaucratic burden. It has always been my opinion that high tax rates lead to a high level of evasion and can be counter-productive not only because of evasion but also because of the costs of enforcement and reduced spending by consumers. High tax rates and an unreasonable bureaucratic burden (compliance inspections, documentation, delays in approvals, costs, etc.) force companies to close or move production elsewhere. This leads to unemployment, higher costs of social support, and lower tax income for governments. Taxes and charges are then increased to cover the shortfall and the downward spiral continues.

Phew. That was a bit of a drift from the Tesla Roadster and Semi but it may go part of the way to explain why this sort of developement can take place in America (and perhaps Germany) but is not so easy in Britain.

You are right that the US VC program does benefit innovation and create wealth. Recently France and the UK have seen a significant growth in local VC activity.

https://www.ft.com/content/d0f0d09a-b6fc-11e6-ba85-95d1533d9a62
https://www.techworld.com/picture-gallery/startups/who-are-uks-22-venture-capital-firms-3642920/

Whilst they are tiny compared to the US there has been a good increase in the rate and applications. Cambridge has done a good job of building an incubator program in recent years as well.

Darn it. The coupe is starting to sound interesting.

Peter, I run a marketing consulting and market research institute in the legal form of a GmbH (Ltd). You only mention the corporate tax of round about 15%, But you forgot the solidarity surcharge of 5.5% and the trade tax of about 10%.Therefore in average a GmbH in Germany has round about a 30% flatrate tax. I don‘t know which tricks big companies like VW etc may use to shrink the percentages but I have to pay this amount of tax only on the Ltd side plus my income tax.

Actually Heinz the first paragraph of my post above was not referring to the total tax burden and you have just given a good example of some of the taxes that add to the base nominal tax rate. There are actually many more taxes that can be charged that add up to the total tax burden. Payroll tax is one which is charged in some countries.It almost seems like an intentional disincentive to employment. Various other rates, government levies and so on have to be added to arrive at the full tax burden on companies. These figures are seldom published and are very hard to find to make comparisons but you can be sure that the multinationals have specialists that study all these costs to business.

PS. I just found this which gives some interesting figures as a percentage of commercial profits.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IC.TAX.TOTL.CP.ZS?view=chart

That‘s an interesting page, Peter. And it shows the increasing concentration of money.

In the fear of a thread change, we should get a simple, equal and transparent tax system in the EU as well as for employees as for the companies. In the meanwhile we can ask Mr. Junker, how he managed it that companies like McDonald or Apple had to pay 1.5% corporate tax concerning their whole European business via Luxembourg. I learned that one single MyDonald branch in Luxembourg did the turn around of all European McDonald branches.

Regarding the Tesla Coupe and the Tesla company, we will see...They struggle a lot. Even if I share all the worries with regards to electrical cars like battery lifespan, CO2 figures caused by battery production, huge charging time, low milage and so on, on the other side Tesla has shifted the image of electrical cars to a more interesting and emotional positioning when they launched the first Lotus/Tesla Roadster. An attempt to free the image of the category away from Green only self chastening views.

I run a company with Ltd. entities in a number of countries including Germany, USA and the UK.

IMO Germany do not encourage startup businesses. In the UK it takes a couple of hours and £2 capital to setup a company. In Germany it is a pain and you need €25,000 capital. The Dax reflect this as there are no new players in the 250.

I lived in California and did a startup. There the environment is very easy to get a business going and is supported by finance, VCs who want growth, proof that the model works outside the USA and make sure it is scaleable. If you can do all of that you can get your second round of funding and you are away. I am not sure it works that way in Europe.

In the UK we frequently Look shorter term and sell the business earlier than in the USA. Probably because funding growth often means putting your house on the line.