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howard Offline OP
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Thanks guys but you are all more up to date than me so I need a bit more explanation.

Presumably the router splits up the signal to various different outputs and combines the signal back from various senders. And the modem converts what comes down the wire into something a PC can use and reverses that process for outgoing messages. But which do you do first? And if you send the signal from the router down through the household wiring do you first have to put it through a modem?

Presumably the box that Plusnet sent me combines router and modem and wireless signal generaot into one

And what is a gadget like the Amazon Firestick? Does it simply piggyback your existing router / modem bits to direct traffic via an Amazon server, in that sense mimicking what a Skybox does?

But more to the point, does the firestick do anything more than add Amazon content ( which I dont want) or does it also allow BBC, ITV etc? In other words will it replace Freeview?

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I have Foxtel (Sky basically but the Aussie version). We hardly watch it and increasing use streaming services (at a fraction of the cost) via apps on the TV.


Richard
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Howard, if you route the signal through your house mains you can kiss any of your amateur radio operating goodbye.


Graham (G4FUJ)

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It is a bit like the old dial up days when you take this approach.

When you take modern broadband or cable there are two actions that take place. Modulation of a signal over the cable leaving the building (modem) resulting in a datastream. Firewall and build the IP network/copper/wifi inside your home. Router.

Carriers (Sky, Virgin, BT, Plusnet etc) have to provide millions of these and mostly free-ish so want a cheap unit. They also want it to be ultra stable and simple to support as EVERYONE hates a dodgy service.

So they provide an integrated Modem and Router which is what you most likely have now. You can buy separate items for these and when my B/B was 2Mb I did this as the box provided was utter garbage. With most modern 34Mb BT fibre(ish) links the modern integrated routers can mostly keep up. Enough for streaming a good TV program. If four streams are going to four people then you may need to think a bit.

A speed test will show a rough guide as to its peak but not a 100% workload figure. Also the test programs suffer a bit from all the other carp floating around at the time of test. In many cases in older (thick walled houses) the WiFi can be lower connection than the link out of the building with modern BB and Cable. A good test tool is here - https://www.broadband.co.uk/broadband-speed-test/

Replacing the carrier provided box with a decent quality (one box) third party unit from a more specialist vendor usually helps quite a bit. Go onto your B/band providers help forum or call them and ask if they have recommendations. You do risk support issues if things go furry, they will shirk the problem and tell you to refit their box. Best to ensure you get one recommended by people on the forum. Example thread - http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Fibre/3rd-party-routers-on-sky-fibre/td-p/2717008

If you are an Apple fanboy then the timecapsule is quite handy. It can do the B/band username login stuff as well as backup your Macs (why it cannot backup your iPhones/Pads is an thieving mystery to me). It has good wireless and can act as a local server.

If you do have a house that makes the WiFi poor and has reasonable quality power cabling with a single fuse box then the powerline networking stuff can be your friend (but perhaps not a radio hams, sorry graham) as this comes out of the router on RH45/UTP cable and then runs around the house allowing 2 or more tap points. Inject near the router then extract (possibly to a slave WiFi unit at the other end of the house. In general you want the slave to have the same settings as the master but be on a different channel.

WiFi uses 2 Frequencies 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. For the sake of simplicity think of it as being AM and FM. Most routers are dual band and so have a radio that does each. Most devices also now speak 2.4 and 5Ghz automatically. Most routers have an Auto mode which chooses the channel based on what is apparently the least used. Within AM(2.4) and FM(5) you have a number of channels (1-13 and 44-52) For 2.4 you want to be on 1 6 or 11 and nothing else as they overlap. 6 causes interference on 4/5/7/8 to a degree. By using only 1/6/11 this is avoided. On 5Ghz it is not an issue as they don't overlap/interfere. If you neighbour is on 7/8/9 tell them to be on 1/6/11 so you don't bump bits. Put the lounge device on 1 and put the WiFi slaves on 6 or 11, which ever is least used in your crowded locations!

With the homeplug powerline stuff it is a bit like hoping through the power cables and coming out in another location. You can come out on a cable and fit it into something using this cable or you can buy one with an inbuilt slave WiFi to provide a second pool of signal for your devices. My recommendation would be to have 1 master, 2 slaves with WiFi to give total coverage. I would also recommend choosing the units that are pass through for the power socket. Some are plugged in so losing the use of the socket, some have a socket on their front so allowing you to use it for other stuff. Don't plug it into an extension lead. These leads often have power smoothing features which will actually attenuate the data traffic of the HP/AV plugged into the extension socket.

When looking at which stick to use I would recommend considering the following.

What can I get on the main TV
DVB (The Humax boxes do a Sky+ for this)
FreesatHD (Again some Humax boxes do a Sky+ and can also add it to a TV which does not have it)
Smart TV options built in (iPlayer, All4, 5, Netflix etc ?) Varies by TV vendor and age.

There is a side by side test here if it helps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEEBFLWEw7c. This will be a slightly volatile area for the next few years as they all try and wrestle control of the future media users and Internet delivery. Example is Sky releasing NOW to appeal to Internet centric people.

Things like Youtube are on most things and have a massive store of content including full programs (legal and otherwise!) as well so don't miss these. There are also a few other mentioned above that are new to me, thanks everyone. In most cases you point a browser at them and go full screen. Most Smart TVs have one built in.

Now look at what is the most important missing one for you. Most of them have a trial period and can be used from a PC through IE/Chrome/Safari etc so you can have a go and see if the content of that provider is valuable.

It is also worth comparing what they run on. For example lets say you can get good service in the Lounge on the big TV. You have good WiFi signal in your bedroom. You can now use an iPad in the bedroom and just watch stuff on that, or link it to the bedroom TV. Most of these services can be used from multiple devices so you can also take them on (country specific in most cases) holiday with you. So if Prime runs on iOS and Android but netflix does not then that can help make a decision for you? This will even out over time.

If you are an Amazon Prime user then the Prime offers a lot of free TV content as well. Does the TV have Prime as many already do. Who do you want to use ? Amazon offer the Firestick which is their little plug-thing.

Now.TV (Sky)
Amazon Prime
Netflix are all offering HDMI plug things to extend your existing TV's choose according to who you want to pay for the content.

The plug-things will also typically bring iPlayer/All4 etc so if your TV is not smart these can bring them as well.

I just ordered a Google Chromecast Ultra to try out as a dongle thing. I have AppleTV and use it with our Mac/iPad population. We watched a number of box sets using this over christmas by using All4 on the iPad and casting it to the AppleTV/TV. It is excellent to use and stable when watching. It also allows you to download content for watching on the move..

Assume the dongles are going to be replaced quickly over the next 2-3 years as things will progress quickly.

Sorry if this has confused you more, happy to chat if you like, DM if you want to. Happy to meet for a beer if you are anywhere near RG28.

Last edited by Alistair; 28/03/18 01:35 PM.

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Originally Posted By howard
Thanks guys but you are all more up to date than me so I need a bit more explanation.

Presumably the router splits up the signal to various different outputs and combines the signal back from various senders. And the modem converts what comes down the wire into something a PC can use and reverses that process for outgoing messages. But which do you do first? And if you send the signal from the router down through the household wiring do you first have to put it through a modem?

Presumably the box that Plusnet sent me combines router and modem and wireless signal generaot into one


Correct.
There will be a numerical url to get into your Plusnet router's admin: 192.168.1.254 probably (I googled plusnet router admin )


Originally Posted By howard


And what is a gadget like the Amazon Firestick? Does it simply piggyback your existing router / modem bits to direct traffic via an Amazon server, in that sense mimicking what a Skybox does?

But more to the point, does the firestick do anything more than add Amazon content ( which I dont want) or does it also allow BBC, ITV etc? In other words will it replace Freeview?

There's a fair bit of Amazon TV stuff on there - free to view films & tv.
And Netflix.
And apps for everything from independent films (eg Curzon, Mubi) to music video (eg Quello for live performance video)
The stick goes into an HDMI slot on your TV.
Amazon have a description here - there's a funky high-def 4K box too, but it doesn't sound like you need that (it has the same content)

Will


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