New
by Rex_tulips - 30/07/25 07:59 PM
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Forums34
Topics48,365
Posts813,357
Members9,215
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Most Online1,046
Aug 24th, 2023
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,069 Likes: 21
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,069 Likes: 21 |
And just look at the issues we having obtaining even the part numbers for a timing belt and water pump right now OZ ! Cam belt is S&S 106-0571 / Gates 37-0014 and there's no water pump on a M3W so what's the problem? He's got a 2011 4/4 so its a standard Ford part Exactly Rog G Not sure what rabbit hole Chris99 has run into but as we have drifted down the service path on a 2011 4/4 timing belt kit:- * When I first got the car I was keen to establish a comprehensive service and parts schedule so contacted Ford Australia with a photo of the Engine details on my cam cover and was told in no uncertain terms that as it was a crate motor "we will NOT provide you with any information or detail - good luck finding out about you engine..."* The Melbourne Morgan dealer says its a chain and does not need chaining - wrong. * Recently I take the cam cover photo to my local authorised Ford dealer who after 20 minutes of searching his records says sorry we can't help you... I will resolve this for all in OZ as a few of us are looking to do this job.
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,069 Likes: 21
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,069 Likes: 21 |
OK so lets get back on topic and address the issues of the original post - anyone..... Bwana Kidogo,
This is very sad on so many levels - For the customer, Morgan and the future of the M3W.
It is one thing to have issues with a car particularly a vehicle like a M3W but it’s how those issues are handled by the dealer/manufacturer that matter in the end.
I completely understand how you feel as I had almost exactly the same experience with my 4/4 and that was 2011.
It appears not much has changed.
A new car riddled with problems, not ADR (Australian Design Rule) compliant and warranty repairs that were assessed as illegal rendering a potential “Rejection” at registration.
At 6 months I was so disgusted and disillusioned I wrote to Morgan offering to return the car for a refund. After two years no much had changed.
While consumer authorities here indicated I had a good case I was directed to our Federal Department of Infrastructure. On that suggestion I wrote a detailed letter to Morris.
Six weeks later and no response, the Department took Morgan by the scruff of the neck – problem solved for me and others.
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I am temped, like you to publish the entire sorry saga as it may spur the new Italian owner to look at the issues of product, quality control and customer service.
The really sad part is that there is NO car company in the world that has such tolerant and forgiving clientele.
The issues with my car could all have been resolved with the attention of a competent service agent and honest communication.
In my case I believed I could achieve a safe, reliable, fun vehicle after all they are probably the most simple, unsophisticated car in production today and constructed by Morgan since 1936.
I am pleased to say that as of now I have succeeded – she is running magnificently.
A M3W however, appears to be a very different proposition.
You have had the guts and courage to cut a bad trade so good luck with your new motoring ventures.
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,069 Likes: 21
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,069 Likes: 21 |
This is where we started That's it chaps. I did try. 19 months and 10,600 miles and 1 session of talkmorgan group therapy which stiffened my resolve to persist. But: a good definition of insanity is to carry on in the same old way and expect different results...so my M3W is sold but my joy with 3 wheelers persists...just not with Morgan. I wish you all many happy miles in this exceptional car! Below is my final letter to Steve Morris, CEO.
Steve Morris
Managing Director Morgan Motor Company
Dear Steve,
RE: FAREWELL MORGAN
4 June 2019
You’ll be pleased to know that this is the last letter you’ll receive from me. Like the Morgan family, I now retain only a minority share in the form of a Christopher Ward M3W watch and have divested a Plus 4 and my M3W. The watch has not missed a beat. I wish the same could be said of my Morgan 3 Wheeler.
My 2017 M3W cost more than my 2015 Plus 4 but was the most joyful car I’ve owned. It also proved to be the least reliable car I’ve owned.
To use a cricket analogy: with a long list of faults affecting my innings, I drew stumps when the MMC bowler wired my LED headlights incorrectly and refused an umpire’s appeal. Yes, even when I sent MMC written evidence from an MOT examiner that my M3W headlamps would fail an MOT, it refused to refund the labour costs of its faulty workmanship. This is not “playing the game”.
As I walk off the crease, I notice a charming Italian fielder in crisp new whites. His name is Invest Industrial and he asks why I’m leaving the pitch before being bowled out. I explain that cricket is a game based on fair play where the “customer” is treated as the most important player on the field. When this doesn’t happen - we stop - for tea!
But my innings continue: tomorrow, I collect my next 3 wheeler: hand-built with passion and competence and compared to Morgan as “half the price and twice the car”. It is sad that I’m confident this description is likely to be accurate.
Arrivederci!
Short history: I managed only 10,600 miles on my 19 month old Euro 3 M3W before giving up: during this time I experienced:
No O ring fitted to bevel box - it was missing from new
Rusting bright pack cowl - replaced
Badly scratched exhaust on new car - replaced
Drive sprocket replaced (belt alignment problems)
Cam belt tensioner pulley broke (French autoroute recovery)
Paintwork blistering around indicator stalks and rollover hoops
New wheel hub fitted (supersession part to ease belt alignment)
New battery fitted at 8125 miles
Petrol pump failure at 9224 miles (roadside recovery UK)
Second petrol pump failure at 10,600 miles (roadside recovery UK)
Factory fitted LED headlights tested at MoT station: fail
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 27
Just Getting Started
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OP
Just Getting Started
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 27 |
Well everyone: some interesting comments. In response I would say this: the M3W is a a joy to drive! But it costs £40k ono and my expectations for reliability and quality were pitched at this price level. My experience suggests MMC is complacent about quality and service. I detect an arrogance that comes before a fall - something I saw all too often in a corporate career that involved restructuring companies. If you've just bought a new one...I wish you joy and keep my fingers crossed for you. If you are about to buy, then I would advise getting a post 2014 car with at least a few thousand miles on the clock at a sensible price. There are an increasing number available. My "new" 3 wheeler is one of only 19 Blackjack Zeros ever built. Its powered by a Moto Guzzi 1100cc motorcycle engine bolted direct to a 4 speed + reverse VW transaxle for front wheel drive. No bevel box, no compensator, no rear drive sprocket, no belt alignment issues. More cockpit space (no transmission to accommodate). 440kgs pulled by 65bhp. Its not a Morgan...but my first 200 miles suggest that it may well prove to be "half the price and twice the car". I will repay the support of TalkMorgan by posting a proper review and comparison once I've put a few hundred miles on the clock. Meanwhile, here's a review that was written in a UK national paper back in 2009: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/first-drives/4734516/Blackjack-Zero-review.htmlThank you all for your comments and I wish you safe and trouble-free driving.
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 2
Has a lot to Say!
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Has a lot to Say!
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,031 Likes: 2 |
I had not expected that!
Enjoy it and I hope your three-wheeled driving will now be trouble-free.
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 760 Likes: 23
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 760 Likes: 23 |
While I have not had the opportunity (yet) to test my patience with the Morgan Motor Company, the conjectures about their motives troubles me a bit. My one visit to the "works" left me with the impression that the employees seem very well meaning and are proud to be continuing a version of traditional English handcrafting and are appreciative of the customer base. Perhaps their Management has a different, more jaded view, but there is at least one other explanation that I'll offer to explain their lack of suitable response to warranty and design flaw issues: lack of scale.
In 2017 MMC had a record year with a gross income of 36 million pounds (~$45MM). That is a TINY amount of income for a company that produces products that have to meet variable and onerous emission, safety, and other motor vehicle standards across the globe. All the while making some level of net profit so they may continue to fund the future of the enterprise.
I can't imagine how difficult it would be operating an entire car company with a budget that must be less than Ford spends on tail lamps in a year. Production needs would have to come first (income!) then R&D/compliance for the future, then, with whatever personnel time and money is left (not very much at all) they then address post production issues.
I'm not suggesting here that they not be held accountable for real issues, but rather I'm saying their lethargic responses should be viewed in context. Yes, these are expensive machines (as one would expect with specialist low volume production), but if we try to hold them accountable to a level like we might with i.e. Toyota, then MMC likely wouldn't exist at all.
Steve
Late 2012 M3W
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 981 Likes: 14
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 981 Likes: 14 |
Richard Oates is a rather talented fellow. He was also behind the, somewhat underrated, Midas.
Brian
Jersey and Spain
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 27
Just Getting Started
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OP
Just Getting Started
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 27 |
Steve,
You are right and I suspect this is why the Morgan family was wise to accept the Invest industrial opportunity. What Investindustrial hopes to gain is an interesting one: investing in a mature "combustion engine" business doesn't make sense, so it must be something to do with the skillset and operational scale (currently a weakness for all the reasons you suggest). However, I can see the logic of offering a coachbuilding service to customers as electric cars replace outlawed combustion engines and individuality retains a premium...in many ways this is what MMC actually does now.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,944
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,944 |
If you've just bought a new one...I wish you joy and keep my fingers crossed for you. If you are about to buy, then I would advise getting a post 2014 car with at least a few thousand miles on the clock at a sensible price. There are an increasing number available.
Thank you all for your comments and I wish you safe and trouble-free driving.
Sorry you have had enough of MMC & are leaving the fold. Your suggestion of a post 2014 car with some miles is a good one. My 2013 car has been reliable over the last 2 years after a new chassis (MMC paid) & centa compensator fitted. Lots of issues before then, it failed after 3 days & 250 miles with a pushrod fault. Recovered 3 times to the dealer. It must be very frustrating being a Morgan dealer stuck between an annoyed customer & unresponsive MMC. A lot of the trouble is just getting MMC to authorise work. Replacement chassis for early cars must mean there was no profit in those cars. They do at last seem to have that weakness sorted.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,069 Likes: 21
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,069 Likes: 21 |
Reading posts like this make me feel a bit concerned when I’ve just spent so much money on a new 3 wheeler 😳
Great letter to Morgan! Obie, at least you can draw on the collective experience of the M3W fraternity on TM and be on top of any issues early on.
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
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