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Joined: Oct 2006
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You saved me asking the same questions Phil; except for one - 5th Gear! I thought a 'fifth' was added in the the late eighties?

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I have have driven some dogs of turbos such as the Crossely diesel turbo Land Rover Disco (only company car with 6 seats & I have 4 kids, 0-60 about 11 months) and some gems such as the common rail Citroen HDI which you could truly believe was petrol & had power across the range.

I also have been loaned a 911 Carerra 4 S which was awesome as a car & was is a twin turbo.

My Mercedes is a Kompressor (i.e. super charger) & that is also great for pick up & economy 38 mpg at high speed motorway touring & fast A roads. The turbo diesel version does 44 mpg but ain't nowhere near as much fun responsively.

I guess my question is will the T16 survive having a turbo fitted or can I get more usable power for everyday A roads elsewhere.


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I don't think a well engineered 'Low Pressure'Turbo will do your engine any harm, but you will 'feel it' initially in your wallet!
You answered the question for me re the 'Super Chip' - Peaky; a result I don't want and therefore I will have to 'pay the piper' for an 'All Round' solution, rather than a 'Quick Fix'; nothing new in that.

Madame now drives a Turbo Diesel 'Toyota' RAV 4 which is rather 'quick off the mark' and like the 'Picasso' you could swear it was a petrol engine. Previously we had a Peugeot, same Group as Citroen but miles apart in respect of the diesel engine technolgy.

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It is not unreasonable to expect a noticeable gain by remapping or chipping a turbo charged engine. However you should not expect the same from a normally aspirated car as they are generally harder to extract gains from.

As Camelman stated a well set up low pressure turbo should not affect engine life. The key is to ensure the installation is done properly and that the boost is set low.

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Originally Posted By SpeedMog
Originally Posted By gomog
It may be a good time for patience on 4/4 and Plus 4 upgrades. One of the GM companies in the UK is developing and co-sponsoring a pleasant package that will add a more powerful engine (155ish), more drivability and add a 5th gear...all with warranty coverage.

Considering it should be announced shortly, it may be wise to see how that turns out before making a decision.

Lorne


I'm a bit confused here. confused2 The Rover T16 engine looking to be upgraded is a dead and buried engine (I stand to be corrected if wrong) and was produced by the now defunct MG Rover. The current 4/4 and Plus 4 have Ford Duratec engines. How come a GM company is doing a package. I assume you mean GM = General Motors or am I lost in a mid Atlantic abreviation? waiting


Sorry for the delay Phil. I only drop by here on occasion and we have guests fresh from Bristol and Ashford in house.

Yes GM=General Motors for me too! smile (one UK marriage and 4 months a year over there have taught me much about translating between the French, the English and the Americans.)

This GM arm (UK-based and run) was the same facility that was hired by the Morgan board in 2005 to adapt a Series I chassis to carry a trad body powered by a LS2 or LS7. (The project was cancelled in 2005 after CM assumed the MMC reins.)

The fellow running the company in question, Stewart Halstead, has enjoyed a remarkable reputation in the British motor world for decades. It has been said that the present demographics suggest that there is a demand for a more travelable (primarily) and powerful option for earlier 4/4s and early Plus 4s. I have also heard that one of the UK's more prominent Morgan restorers has been engaged to see how the marriage between a GM 1.8 and box, along with 4 pots and much better cooling will do.

If it continues to proceed, I will get you more details if you wish....

On other options, well...I am loathe to stress engines with addon gimicktry. It produces neglibly more power at a sacrifice to reliabilty and the comfort/safety/lore of the pack. If the desire to remain Concours d'Etat original runs deep, it is best to consider selling and buying a more powerful model Morgan. Less misery and cost in the end. For that matter the latest Plus 4s are super fun and good cruisers under any conditions.

Lorne

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Thanks Lorne for the clarification, it sounds interesting and would certainly put 'life' into a lot of still viable 1.6 CVH cars.

Is this a 'MMC' sanctioned project ?

Thanks and Regards

Robert

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Originally Posted By Camelman
Thanks Lorne for the clarification, it sounds interesting and would certainly put 'life' into a lot of still viable 1.6 CVH cars.
Is this a 'MMC' sanctioned project ?
Thanks and Regards
Robert


Heavens no! For any manufacturer, retro-upgrading of this nature (power enhancement) is thought to hurt new product sales.

Even with the smaller things, the aftermarket always leads, with the company following a bit later. Non-rusting kingpins, steering bearings, easy-up tops, lower line luggage racks, colored wing beading, 4 pot braking, better eproms, the extensive use of stainless, etc etc

Lorne

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Originally Posted By gomog
The fellow running the company in question, Stewart Halstead, has enjoyed a remarkable reputation in the British motor world for decades.

Hmm - I thought he was the ex TVR chap who now runs whats left of Reliant the three wheeler company? Are they owned by GM or has he moved on again? sherlock
Originally Posted By gomog
It has been said that the present demographics suggest that there is a demand for a more travelable (primarily) and powerful option for earlier 4/4s and early Plus 4s.

So you mean the Ford non crossflow/crossflow 4/4 and the TR Plus 4?? sherlock
Originally Posted By gomog
I am loathe to stress engines with addon gimicktry. It produces neglibly more power at a sacrifice to reliabilty and the comfort/safety/lore of the pack.

Could not disagree more. A zetec 4/4 with a low pressure turbonb drives just like a Plus 8 - loads of torque and power with reliability and ecomony to boot. flag


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Originally Posted By gomog
The fellow running the company in question, Stewart Halstead, has enjoyed a remarkable reputation in the British motor world for decades. Lorne

Originally Posted By SpeedMog

Hmm - I thought he was the ex TVR chap who now runs whats left of Reliant the three wheeler company? Are they owned by GM or has he moved on again? Phil sherlock


Hi Phil,

You have previously expressed here your opinion of me and eMog and GoMoG. Obviously, your passions run deep and I hope will you will explain them to me one day over a pint if ever we meet. However,I believe that passion is certainly coloring your comments here and while that doesn't dismay me, I feel uncomfortable with you casting an unfair light on one really fine Englishman, in Halstead. I knew of him when he was running TVR and he was carefully chosen by the MMC for the Aero/trad project.

Why don't you speak with Stewart directly and find all the real facts of his history? I am sure you will enjoy that and hopefully make a friend. I, for one, would be grateful for your research. He can be found through http://www.gmpartsworld.com/

As to the many independent companies closely associated with auto manufacturers, this is a device used by the large and small for the liability and other issues. For example, the Morgan Roadster was contracted out to a company closely associated with Ford by not Ford. Another example would be the racing Aeros which were developed by a non-MMC independent company closely associated with the MMC.

Originally Posted By gomog
I am loathe to stress engines with addon gimicktry. It produces neglibly more power at a sacrifice to reliabilty and the comfort/safety/lore of the pack.


Quote:

Could not disagree more. A zetec 4/4 with a low pressure turbo drives just like a Plus 8 - loads of torque and power with reliability and ecomony to boot. flag


Do you have some sources? The UK dealers I have spoken to have only limited anecdotal knowledge of it.

Within the Morgan community, I had heard Chas Windridge (aka Mogsport) has done a single one for the track. It is reputedly reliable but it is so hard to generalize on the basis of one installation. Friends tell me it is a very neat job and it is advertised as producing 186 bhp. (Tho that is likely too much for a non-LSD axle and the skills of a normal driver.) The conversion runs to £6000 which will be high for most outside of those with racing desires.

Outside the Morgan world, I am aware that Moss-Europe markets a US charger kit but have not heard much about it. http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/ Is that the one you are referring to?

For another racing supercharger upgrade, I was looking at the developments at Raceline. Peter McEwen, a former Formula One designer, is well along on a racing super-charged Zetec and the all-ally block. http://www.raceline.co.uk/zetecframes.htm They have track tested the car and are just making sure the reliability issues get sorted.

However, none of the above suppliers recommend their turbo conversions as a wise choice for a Zetec engined road car. Is there another set-up you are referring to?

If i had a casst iron Zetec, I wouod deeply consider a non-turbo alternative. I dealt with a fellow by the name of Alan Fereday of Fereday Cars when I was searching for a big SPAL fan. He does Zetec upgrades to a perfect bhp for a 4/4 starting at £700.00. This type of Zetec upgrade is well proven and no risk.

None of these packages are comprehensive and there is still the non-Zetec 4/4s and Plus 4s crowd.

Lorne

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This is my third attempt at trying to reply.............

I have a 'Foot in both Camps' as regards this argument. As a owner of a Series II in 1967, +/- 10 years after it originally left the factory, I know what it is to drive an 'under - powered' Mog compared to 'my other' car at the time - an 850 Mini badged an 'Austin Seven'.

The last modern 'Mog' which is relevant to this discussion was a 1.6 CVH. Mike Duncan then based near Brierly Hill worked his magic on her; with the result she was fast but thirsty with plenty of useable torque. Her 'Nemises' was the 4 Speed Box which made traveling any great distance a pain. I can therefore see a ready market amongst the many X - Flow and 4 Spd CVH Owners looking for a reasonably priced Up Grade.

Where I would take issue with you Lorne is over the 'Mogsport' Turbo conversion. I'm considering it on the basis of 'Third Party' recommendations by actual users; excluding
our 'Speedmog'. Where did you get your number of installations from ?

It is not 'cheap' but a lot cheaper than your quoted GBP 6k, and hopefully the 'Duratec' installation will be in the same price range as the 'Zetec' when finally signed - off. Hopefully, it will also be in line with the 'Premium' charged for a 2.0 +4. As you said in your original posting, the car manufactureres will not approve of something that is going to cost them sales. Ford are quite happy to fit Turbos to Volvos because there is a Premium/Profit over a standard Fords.

Kind Regards

Robert aka Camelman

MSCC 1850
MCF 630

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