Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing 3.9 +8 starting problems

Hi all,

When I got my +8, it started very well. During he last days, I noticed, that it had to rev a bit longer, before the engine fired. But it still did. Later, it needed two or three attempts, especially when warm. Today, after a drive of about 50 Kilometers, it needed more attempts, but eventually it started. After coming home, I gave it another try, but it refused to start, even after some cooling down time.

What has to be said is, that once the engine runs, it runs, it runs very well.

As suggested here I already checked, if the mass airflow sensor is not grounded but everything OK. (It‘s called „air flow meter“ in my car bur to my understanding, it should be the same thing, isn‘t it).

Could it be possible, that the spark is too „weak“ when the starter motor is turning ant the battery is not fully charged? The battery is brand new, by the way. Now I‘m loading it. If it starts well, with a full battery, I probably found the problem.

If not, do you have any ideas?

Thanks for you replies.

Sunny greetings,
Ivo

When you turn on the ignition do you hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds ? I guess that you already know that the pump runs for a few seconds to pressurise the fuel header, and then the ECU turns it off, once the engine is turning over, after a short delay to allow oil pressure to build up, the ECU turns the pump on. A non running fuel pump could be the inertia switch, fuel pump relay, fuse, or a faulty fuel pump.

On my 3.9 I have had the following problems that tended to be affected by under bonnet temperature

Rotor arm - gave intermittent starting problems and eventually a complete failure to start

Pickup in the distributor - again intermittent starting issues - eventually cured by passing a piece of cardboard through the gap to clean up the pickup and the toothed wheel, I did then replace the pickup

A non temperature related problem was the connector between Morgan wiring loom and engine (Land Rover) loom. Simply unplugging and plugging back together fixed the problem. A dose of contact cleaner was then applied to 'improve' the fix

Another temperature related issue others have experienced is a faulty ignition coil that gets faulty when hot

We have lost the sun today, hoping for some rain, our garden needs it

Check the earths. I thought the starter was going on my Roadster but cleaning the earths solved that.

Thank you guys

When the ignition is on, the fuel pump is audible and when the engine starts, namely, after a few attempts, there is a smell of unburned fuel.

I will remove the distributor cap tomorrow and inspect all the components. But somehow, I doubt, that the problem is there, because two months and some 500km ago, many components have been replaced, including spark plugs, all ignition cables, distributor cap and rotor.

The coil also looks new, but is not listed on the bill. Heat might be an issue here. I know this symptom from long time ago, when I was young.

Checking the connector between Morgan wiring loom and engine loom sounds like a great idea. Where do I find that one?

The starter motor does not seem to be the problem. It turn easily, as usual. But checking the earths can‘t do any bad.

Tomorrow, with the cold engine and the fully loaded battery, I hope, that the car will start again. I‘ll keep you informed.

Sunny greetings,
Ivo

There is one earth on the battery. The other on mine is on your drivers side below the wiper motor o the chassis to the gearbox.

There have been various warning, mainly from TVR owners, of poor quality rotor arms, so a new rotor arm may not be rock solid. My memory is that there was a thread or two about it on the TVR forum on Piston Heads, I did buy some from one of the recommended suppliers.

The connection between Morgan loom and Land Rover engine loom is under the dash, to the far right side, I forget the number of pins, but I think that there are 7 wires connected on the LR side, my notes of the wire colours are as follows

white/slate ignition
white/pink fuel pump
black/yellow mil light (not used, not wired)
yellow speed sensor
brown battery +12v
orange/black neutral switch - not used, can't remember if it is wired to 0v
pink/yellow heated screen (not used)


The MIL light is inhibited in the ECU program. What may look like a MIL light on the dash lights up when the inertia switch is activated.

Might be worth checking the connections to the ignition amplifier module and or the unit itself failing they are a known weakness.

Forgot to add, there is an ignition amplifier, screwed onto the bracket that holds the ignition coil, they do get warm, the amplifier uses the bracket as a heat sink, haven't had one fail, but have heard of failures. If fitting a new one there should be some heat conductive grease supplied.

Maybe a related point to check, there is a wire from the ignition coil to the ECU (via a resistor) that sends a signal so the ECU knows when the ignition coil is generating a spark. The ECU uses this signal to know the engine is running (so the fuel pump can be turned on), and when to fire each bank of injectors. Worth checking the various connectors on the coil and on the resistors, the Lucar terminals can tend to loosen up

my 1997 3.9 had similar problem. local mechanic suggested try new starting technique: clutch in, no pressure on throttle pedal. turn ignition to position 1 listen for for fuel pump sound to whirr and finish and repeat. then turn key to start - NB no foot on gas pedal.

Which engine management system do you have?
Have a look in Gomog Plus8 section for descriptions of the three. Probably the Hotwire version.
Do you have an OBD fault code reader? If so then that would be my first check to see what faults it detects. That could help narrow down tracing the problem. You can then home in on what to check. Better than diving in with trial and error, even for known weak or problematic areas.
You seem to be getting petrol going in ok so it looks like it could be spark related, either weak due to plugs or leads failing or a sensor failing and poor or corrupted signals going to the ECU due to sensor issues (poor and dirty contacts or failing sensor).