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Barry M Offline OP
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Peter Walker was an exceptional innovator - but I disagree with his views on cables and some other things.

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Whilst I do appreciate the finer sound of a better system, these days I am not sure my hearing is capable of distinguishing between our current mid-range system and some of the equipment described above. My ability to resolve higher frequencies is definitely a lot worse than it was 20 years ago.

On the plus side, it leaves me more money to spend on other things.


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Originally Posted by Heinz
I don't want to create an imbalance here and leave room for other hifi enthusiasts, but I would like to post two more links. On the one hand a very detailed review about the Duelund cable. Thanks a lot, Barry. I didn't know it but I am very much looking forward to making some, for speakers and as interconnect. I know the effect from the guitar world.

http://positive-feedback.com/audio-...remium-tinned-copper-vintage-tone-cable/

My second link refers to Barry's statement that the sound of the source only forms a system when combined with the brain. It occurred to me how important the room also is, as many people know. 12 years ago I read a book about this by Floyd Toole, who some hifi enthusiasts might know, because he has done a great job in the AES. „Sound Reproduction“

http://www.aes.org/events/145/presenters/?ID=7712

Roy Delgado, then chief engineer at Klipsch, gave us the book tip when I attended an audio seminar in Hope AR in 2009.

I wanted to link the book title here, but there is a very positive surprise, because I discovered that the whole book is online as a pdf. You just have to wait a few seconds for it to load, very readable.

https://we.riseup.net/assets/443799...f+Loudspeakers+and+Rooms+Floyd+Toole.pdf

Excellent links Heinz.
Many thanks,
Nick

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Mixture of Pioneer, Marantz and Q Acoustics with a TEAC ensemble for copying stuff from vinyl and cassette. I have 3 garrard decks & several Marantz amps etc. with Wharfedale & goodmans speakers up in the loft.
Sadly when you reach a certain maturity (and hearing goes downhill from the age of 20!!) the limiting factor is the human auditory system - it`s known as senile presbyacusis (hope I`ve spelt that right!) .


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Originally Posted by Peter J
Yet one can pay £2.5k per meter for so called "top end" interconnects. Do I smell snake oil?


That entire sector was like a blind mans bluff when I was working in Auditions. We used to call it magic cables. Not in a nice way. The magic was all your money disappeared and you were usually left wondering where it went and why.

Some examples.

We had two listening rooms, one mid range and one high end. The high end was usually left plugged in, warm and ready to connect with the exception of speakers which could be heard if they were in room allegedly. The main sales rep from Exposure was a very straight talking chap called Kevin and he was from Yorkshire so was not inclined to try and paint things wrongly. One day we had some spare time and he came in and said he wanted to use us to do a blind listening test on some products he was going to release. We put our favourite system together and listened to three tracks a few times to get used to them. He then came in and we did the eye mask thing. He played the track four times and we all picked the second as the best. Same again on the second record - we all went for the same option saying it sounded more open and lighter with extra detail. Same for third track. We were wondering what this new super product was that could get an extra 20% out of the system. Roksan t/table arm and cartridge, Naim active amp stack, Naim SBL speakers. We were going to sell the living bits out of it!

He had three things in front of him and we heard four auditions......

1. £350 pre-power cables from a new company (Cable-Talk)
2. An acoustic mat that went under the turntable and apparently damped feedback letting the Roksan work better, £600 to you sir.
3. A mystery box which we had chosen on every track......we were not going to find out today but he would tell us shortly.
4. The fourth was the system as we had it as a benchmark. In general it had come second or sometimes third from our marks which was interesting. We used the Naim mid-range cabling.

Any way three weeks later he comes in and gets us to try one more check, we were all happy. He said he would sell it to us at £150 trade and the retail was £250 per unit. We said yes. It was the box.

It was literally the white foam that had been used to pack a PC into a shipping box, he liked the properties of the foam end packing and literally just put it under his CD and was stunned by the improvement. He thought he was losing his mind and so asked us to do the test! We never had the nerve to do it but I still think we could have made a fortune. It was this stuff. https://www.efoam.co.uk/closed-cell-polyethylene-foam.php

We spent one slow afternoon trying out about 12 different types of speaker cable on the same Roksan/Naim system. One was slightly brighter, a couple had a little more clarity (£300/m) but compared to spending £300 on other stuff not really worth it in our experience above £30/m. Then Kevin came back in again and upset us. He got some thick (30amp?) household ring mains twin-n-earth and just used the two main conductors for speaker cable and it sounded wonderful. Nuts. It was not just the cheapest contract stuff to be fair but it was a lot better than most of the others we had in the shop. Bass became way more individual in note and depth, clarity was open but treble was a little less sweet. It was solid core 30 amp mains cable! a little like this https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/electrical-mains-power-cables/4939766/ He grounded the middle earth cable additionally.

There were loads of things we got up to in order to learn what did and did not work.

It turned out that Kevin had previously worked as a power supply line engineer for National Grid and so had some form in this area. He then went on to setup Cable Talk which became Talk Electronics the cable supplier and later equipment company. It was good stuff, we sold a chunk of it. https://talkelectronics.com/talk-cables/ His bread and butter speaker cable was great value for mid range systems.

Last edited by Alistair; 18/06/20 02:47 PM. Reason: like alwais, spilling n grandmer

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Barry M Offline OP
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Early Bose speakers were dynamic but coloured. Overall a better sound than many in their price range.
Later ones were all about the marketing and were lowfi at best.

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Interesting thread with views I can fully understand. My system was chosen purely because it reproduced the sound of the band I play in and others that I've heard playing acoustically live the closest. It also had to fall within my budget.
After blind listening various systems I chose one which turned out to be a Linn Sondek, Ittok, K9, Naim 72/140 and Naim SBL speakers. I still have it today and here's why.

After purchasing my dealer let me hear his system which was a modified Sondek along with top of the range Naim amps, power supplies and crossovers coupled to a pair of isobarik speakers. Needless to say it was awesome.
This would be my chosen route. Then CD arrived, I eventually bought myself a budget player with the intention of upgrading when I had enough CDs in my collection to justify it. This never happened, CD was superceded, marriage and children came along, the music scene I'm involved in evolved and I found very few new recordings made their way into my collection.

When I did find myself in a position to upgrade I decided not to and bought a Morgan instead. It would be interesting to see which route I would go down if I decided to upgrade in the future.

I agree entirely the equipment is not the main thing in enjoying music, It is undoubtedly affected by the room and furnishings but mood I find has a bigger effect. How can the same recording on the same system in the same room at the same volume have the hairs on the back of my neck up one time but not another? Discuss.


Gordon Duguid
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What model Garrards do you have PhilRoyal? I am in the middle of building a 301 setup for an old customer and am always on the lookout for quality vintage turntables to upgrade and sell on (or keep).

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Gordon
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Mood and lighting are essential parts of any system.
It's complex mix of tangible and intangible things that all make a difference.

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I would imagine your LP12/Naim/SLB sounds lovely Gordon, I always tried to lead customers to that combo but we were not a Linn dealer so used the Roksan which was also beautiful to listen to. Those amps and speakers were never shouty and on first demo people would often miss the wonderful delicacy of the sound they produced and just say "not enough bass". We would show them Kef 104ab's and they may as well have just put on heavy metal.


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