Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms vintage versus modern hifi

Heinz,


Could it be that if you're sight is diminished by not wearing glasses your ears become more alert and sensitive.
I find music reproduced on my hi-fi always sounds better in the dark.

I think it’s the opposite. Your ears become less discerning, so your brain compensates, until......

SFG,

That would be correct, it's the brain compensating for the lack of vision by increasing hearing ability, I guess a prolonged listening session would lead to fatigue.

5 watts mono using EL 84s in push-pull IIRC?

Sorry that post was for Ian Wegg

Since it was about to get a young dog I had to rethink my loudspeakers. I really like the BBC Stirling Broadcast LS3/6. But they stand very filigree on delicate stands of the brand "something solid" 40cm high. A young tempestuous dog would be able to drop them into the depths, onto the tube amp or turntable.

But I did not want to reinstall the very large Klipsch Jubilee in the living room. So it occurred to me that from my small collection I could revive my 1993 Tannoy Canterbury 15, which I bought in 2000 and listened to for 8 years and they would be able to defend themselves against a young dog.
What at first seemed like a compromise solution became a very joyful idea. Memories came high above the chocolate side of the Tannoys. So I simply thought that I would wake them up from their Sleeping Beauty sleep and bring them home from the storage area in my office and plug them in - together with the ST200 Tannoy super tweeters.

But what a horror when I removed the grills. The surroundings of the cones were absolutely worn out during the 13 years of very protected and dry storage. Fortunately I found an expert who was very professional and competent to replace the original Tannoy beads of this model.

Today the repaired chassis came back with the mail and I will report how it sounds when I have built everything together but first I must transport this beasts of cabinets to my home.

Here the sight of the destroyed beads, very sticky, semi-transparent and without form and stability. Unfortunately these beads are made of some kind of rubberized foam and 15 years is the maximum life span. But if I would take other beads from other generations of Tannoy Alcomax, all data of spring rate etc. would be wrong for this model.

I got my Tannoy drivers back last week with new original surrounds. I am speechlessly excited. One of the two super tweeters is not working, it is being under repair. But even without these super tweeters the sound is very impressive. I have reactivated this Tannoy after 13 years and I am very happy with it. If anyone is interested I would be happy to write about the strengths and weaknesses of these unique speakers compared to other concepts. Yes...of course they have weaknesses too, but the overall character is very positive and special.

To come to the theme of the thread, this is pure vintage. On exactly these Alnico drivers back in the Tannoy "Arden", for example, Dark side of the moon was mixed at Abbey Road Studios.

Visually and aesthetically, friends either hate them or like them very much. They polarize enormously. I think they are cool, and my wife likes the sound at least:) the only thing missing is the castle in Scotland.

Very interesting posts Heinz (as always).
I'm very interested that you like both the Tannoys and the LS3 s ......digging deep into my memory of all those years ago I seem to remember that the LS were very neutral and the Tannoys very coloured. When I was younger I chased neutral sound, I was an avid admirer of Peter Walker and espoused the whole Quad philosophy.
But later, aged about 57, I decided to go with speakers that I just liked the sound of. I stopped thinking of neutrality and fidelity and ended up with a very different sound that I just liked.
Is something similar happening to you?
Nick

Nick, and all who do not mind the length of this post, this is, as you know, a multifaceted and complex subject. It's almost a philosophical field when it comes to the fact that we associate a "neutral" loudspeaker with the hope of achieving as much authenticity and genuineness as possible. I agree with you, one becomes kinder and less strict over the years. But I had my first Tannoy 40 years ago, a 10 inch HPD295 with Alcomax, just like my 15 inch today. I had sold it in immeasurable stupidity after 10 years. Even though I used other principles, BBC LS, full horn, ESL, the sting of the Tannoy sound always remained in me.

To be quite honest, what does neutrality mean? Basically, every principle has different chocolate aspects and different problem aspects.

Tannoy cons:
- cannot project a "space into the listening room". It is indeed a point source, but they are so large that it is a "wall of sound" without depth staggering.
- If the keynote of a violin note is higher than 1,100 Hz (crossover region) then a violin sounds quite sharp and somewhat tinny if it has no sound component from the large paper cone.
- Even if the resolution is very good, a tannoy is not very well suited to be heard very softly late at night. When heard very softly the sound decays, probably this is better solved with the Westminster, because full horn.
- The sound is noticeably coloured, and some kinds of instruments sound slightly nasal.

These are the main cons that go through my mind. That would be enough of cons to make many people think "I'm running fast far away from Tannoys". And there are people for whom the above negative points remain dominant when they are listening to a tannoy.

But there are pros. And they are in my view outweighing the cons.
- Tannoys are coherent in more ways than one. Often only the geometric point shape is considered. This is of course an important plus point. There are no differences in running time as is the case with separate tweeters and bass drivers. A great relief for the brain when listening.
- But Tannoys are also time aligned, which is less often said but also very important. The Alnico magnet is a deep pot. The diaphragm of the compression chamber tweeter is mounted at the back of the pot. This leads exactly to the compensation of the crossover, which at 1.100 Hertz and 180 degrees phase shift causes a path difference of ca. 14 cm. This sounds very scientific now, but I'm coming to the listening experience. The geometric and time-related coherence leads to breathtaking sound experiences. The Tannoy are the kings of uniform impulse. Whoever hears Milt Jackson's vibraphone via Tannoy for the first time is shocked and blown away. It is an incredible authority in the listening room. As well as drums, attackingly sharp brass sections from good big bands, a Gerry Mulligan solo, a church organ, singing and speaking voices etc. All this has a "casual" full force and a natural correctness. The Tannoy produce the first very important microseconds of a sound development at first go. These are the moments that make us distinguish a guitar from a harp, or a piano from a vibraphone.
- Not despite but because of the large diaphragm, Tannoys are very sensitive and subtle, even with the bass cone. Because it hardly moves at all to reach a certain SPL.
- Another point of coherence is the radiation geometry. The 15 inch bass beams at 1,100 Hz in the same way as the tweeter radiates and the radiating area is the same because the bass cone is the horn of the tweeter. Tannoy make a total of (only) 90 degrees, similar to BBC LS, this is not a hifi speaker.
- The discoloration disappears after three days of listening. A window opens into the music. Tannoy are psychoacoustic killer monsters. It develops a kind of addiction.
-Speech intelligibility in movies is another plus.
- Although there's no 3D depth staggering of space. But you read every recording like an open book. It's a different kind of spatiality that only Tannoys can convey.
- Compared to the ceramic magnet, the Alnico magnet is almost like the tube to the transistor. Of course there are also good ceramic drivers and good transistor amplifiers. But whoever plays electric guitar knows what I mean. So we are against not strictly in the field of neutrality:)
- One last thing, which may sound trivial, but which is also a point to consider: In the background, F1 is on TV playing the Tannoy. With no other loudspeaker I have the impression how real the pitch change is reproduced when the racing cars accelerate. It is...sound.

Oh, I don't work for Tannoy. I suppose I have to say that concerning so much reported enthusiasm.

For those who do not know the construction principle yet, this old drawing may help to explain it a bit.

Thanks Heinz,
Philosophical yes. If you knew how many hours I have spent with pianists adjusting piano hammer heads to achieve what they consider a "proper" or "correct" sound for a particular concert or recording. Then, for a different piece of music the search starts again!
Great fun though.
Nick