Talk Morgan Forums Community Vehicle Talk (non-Morgan) New flat

Best day on a bike was one April, left our hotel in Zaragoza (Spain) I was on my Beemer and mate on his Triumph, went over Andorra to Carcassonne. We started in cold bright sunshine but hit snow just north of La Sri d’Urgell, then followed a snow plough into Andorra la Vella. We found a cafe and entered to silence.... the lady put newspapers on the floor and stood us next to the heater as the snow melted off our suits! Not a word spoken as she placed 2 bowls of piping hot soup on the nearest table and nodded us to sit. Delicious and much needed, she smiled and said ‘Eeengglishh?’ We nodded and she laughed. Ham and eggs followed before we ventured out into the cold but the ride down into France was memorable as it changed back to a sunny spring day and warm sunshine as we reached Carcassonne early evening. Several beers and a steak dinner completed probably the best biking day I ever had.

One of those days that are just magical and impossible to replicate so we never returned incase we damaged the memory.

Had good days in the Morgan (this years trip from Stirling, via Balmoral, the Cairn O’Mount and back to Stirling via Dundee came close) but never quite matched that.

BR
Colin

Colin, I visited all the spots you mentioned with the Morgan in 2019. Bilbao, San Sebastian and Pamplona were included to my tour as well.
A memorable trip indeed but without snow in the mountains as we drove there in June.

Colin, I really enjoyed your tale of riding in the snow, I felt as if I had been there with you.... well up to a point..(-: Rode in all weathers to get to work and back home over many years, though only times I rode in snow was in later years when the sun was shining and more in search of a challenge than necessity...Long past that sort of "foolishness" now.. (-:

Howard, no stranger to knee down riding was I, though prior to that riding STYLE fast cornering was known as ear holing round corners when I were a yoof, Quite amazed to see modern racers putting a foot down these days, but then I remember my uncle a former racer would complain that with the knee down style of riding the airflow over the machine was being disturbed, but then he raced in the dustbin faring era, and was greatly impressed by the wind tunnel when he visited the Guzzi factory way back when..

John H, many thanks for providing an insight to the valuation of Harley from a practical perspective of their actual usage in the land of their creation, all of which seems entirely logical to me, and an aspect of the design of the machine which in truth I had never before contemplated.

K, I do hope I did not come across as "slagging" Harleys, for that would be FAR form my thinking. Having for years considered the variation from hype through to the possible reality of ME owning such a machine. I was ever intrigued by the different approach in terms of design compared to the Brit norms from the first time I cane across an article on Harley in the then new to me motorcycle magazine Motorcycle Mechanics in the mid sixties, I even wrote to Fred Warr who was at the time the only person in the UK who dealt in Harley machines and if I remember correctly was converting ex military bikes to make them more suited for road use in the UK..? They were rare beasts back then and the only Harley I ever saw in the metal back then was in the local museum of transport.

With the passage of time of course Harley became popular perhaps as the result of the film Easy Rider which seems to have spawned a whole generation of Harley "faithful" all around the globe with all of the marketing advantage that provided for the company for many a year...? Me..? I bought every issue of HOG magazine and consumed as much knowledge of the brand as I could....BUT John H`s description of the joy of Harley riding just did not fit as well with my m/cycling ideals as did more nimble machines perhaps I never really saw myself as a bad ass biker or a poser as such, more that I just greatly enjoyed and sought out local roads with ever more challenges on which to attempt to improve my skills in mechanical and riding terms..... Yup, I fell off more than once...(-:

In truth my time reading HOG was a form of research prior to the possibility of returning to m/cycling in my 50`s, like so many bad ass lawyers dentists and the likes who had bought into that sort of hype but eventually I was partially put off by the huge degree of hype surrounding BRAND Harley to the extent they were marketing everything and anything they could apply the name HARLEY to, and employing legal teams world wide to stop others using the brand name on sunglasses, aftershave, hats, T shirts and so very much more....Even to the extent they shut down Brit owned and published HOG magazine as the term HOG was reckoned by Harley Davidson to be THEIRS alone...? I guess those interested in legal interpretations will find plenty of info on the www, but it seems perhaps as a result of marketing and protecting the BRAND they lost their way when concentrating on m/cycle design could perhaps have worked out better long term, which after all was the foundation on which the brand was built...?

Me..? Well as I typed as a hype averse baby boomer who had by then learned to appreciate a more upright riding position promoted by an ever stiffening body and being slightly put off by my very limited contact with the overly heavy and under-braked shovel head HD, I then applied my thinking relative to the quality and realities of German engineering as I had come to know it, having owned a Beetle and three air cooled Porsches, thus logically I began to look at BMW.. While I had been impressed with the R100RS on the I.O.M, for a road bike I much preferred to be without any sort of fairings and the R850RS looked to be precisely that which had the potential to suit me right down to the ground, and did so as I was surprised to find out just how wonderfully well it handled the twisty tarmac around these parts, which is where the majority of my m/cycling pleasure has been derived over many years.. When out on the road I would often come across the obviously new to m/cycling baby boomers on their crotch rockets who rode them like they drove their cars but now with real power to weight ratio, would blast along the straits and round corners rather too gingerly so much so that I would regularly pass them on the outside of the bends to have them blow me into the weeds as they once again rocketed by me on the straights.... (-:

Today...? While it seems logical that BM have been sucked into the retro marketing ideology to some degree, were I buying another bike I suspect I would perhaps still be looking for something as close to the R850R as might be out there, but then again, perhaps I would need to engage the reality of the years that have passed since I last rode my R850R and my current level of abilities.... Yup, I guess the reality is that I am perhaps lucky they still allow me out on the road in four wheels, even if I have to re-apply for my driving licence..Which still allows me to ride m/cycles, even though the DVLA thought to ask if I might care to allow them to delete those categories from my licence when I renewed it some years back....

I suspect I would find some level of enjoyment in having an old bike in the garage, and a iron Harley would fit that bill perfectly well, though whether I might be able to kick start it and for how long, would perhaps be another matter, but then again, My Morgan although not fitting my desires for fun transport as well as it once did, still provides a sense of pleasure every time I visit the garage for any reason. I had an acquaintance who suffered illness for many a year and who fitted out his garage with carpet and comfort options to spend time sitting with his Porsches quite regularly, just enjoying the ambiance and memories they provided...


Enjoy your m/cycling while you can would seem to have potential as worthwhile thinking..?

George

You are spot on about branding and selling the brand over the product. I got to know the people at Harley U.K. rather well and at that time I was running the Volvo dealer training centre in Daventry. I invited the Harley U.K. MD to be a guest speaker at our annual dealer conference and as they were based not far from Daventry he agreed.

He was a great speaker and gave a fascinating presentation. What stuck in many dealers minds was that at that time (early 90’s) the average accessory spend per unit sold for cars was around 3% (of the cars purchase price) but for the previous year the Harley U.K. figure was 10% with some dealers much higher. One wag amongst our dealers said ‘yes, that’s because you don’t finish the bikes!’ The Harley guy laughed and said ‘by design dear boy, by design’.... he went on to explain how it was company policy to leave everything you touch whilst sat on the bikes with an ‘upgrade’ option.

At the time I just just bought a Heritage Softail Classic for £12K and had close to £2K of accessories bolted to it so he was spot on.

I know ‘chrome don’t get you home’ but most of us fell for the hype and handed over the cash.

BR
Colin

I know the feeling. I bought a used T140V in Torbay when I lived in Holland, it was the "Officer & a Gentlemen spec" with peanut tank. I drove it up to Harwich via Lyme Regis along the coast to ensure I could refuel. The weather was great with sunbursts through the clouds.
The traffic was light, the exhaust sporty, the bends lovely & the temperature just right. It was a calming & almost meditational event as I guess most bikers get into when the bike seems part of you.
Happy days.

Still miss my T140V.
Don't think the left knee would survive another kickback though!

Colin, one would have to be blind not to see the influence that advertising has played in so many areas of our lives to the extent that whole sections of society can be sold on this that or the other idea, be it make America great again Get Brexit Done or that a handbag or pair of shoes could ever be worth over £2K. Seems we are suckers for it, and none more so that the baby boomers with cash to spend or homes to remortgage to buy all the stuff they "deserve"... Sorry beginning to rant..again.

For sure HD made a killing out of selling Screaming Eagle stuff, the likes of which the requirement for would never have been imagined on a Brit bike when I was a yoof... Selling a machine with close to useless brakes that looked like they should halt progress rapidly but did not, just did not compute well in my kind of m/cycling logic, but then I was never greatly impressed with marketing, less so since my brother made his fortune in sales... I remember him practising his techniques in selling the family a different TV channel from the one they wanted to watch and them agreeing, much to my frustration, from that time on I was ever resistant to sales tactics...Which has served me well enough over the years... I think..!

It was interesting to see old m/cycle names being bought and sold in the hope of capturing a degree of market share for nostalgia which we baby boomers have been proven to be suckers for Matchless seems to be the latest name which seems to have appeared from nowhere..? Best not look too closely at Norton and all the baby boomers that lost so much in the shenanigans that went on there...?

Yup marketing is all, I remember well typing loads of stuff on eMog suggesting Morgan were perhaps following in HD`s footsteps in that regard, perhaps even trying to dissuade Lorne from continuing to provide information on all things Morgan on GoMoG both good and suggesting that there might be foibles worth considering..? I seem to remember chat relative to the outline of a Trad being mentioned as perhaps being the subject of copyright..? Well I guess if watches and clothing can be perceived as having more value if they carry a particular brand, then there is money to be made somewhere..and protecting that brand name and associated logo`s can become very important..?

Those who have been around Morgans long enough will have seen the design changes to the age old wings Logo for whatever reason, I remember a similar thing with the BM club using the BM Logo, whereby BM presented the club with suggested alternatives to that which they had used for years.... Yup marketing the BRAND can be worth more than the object from which it originated.

Your story of the HD exec and the language used caused me to remember the then chairman of RR aero engine division being asked why it was he only ever flew in kites with four engines, and the reply was "Because they don`t make aircraft with five engined dear boy... (-: Of course that could just be urban myth or as the Donald determines "fake news".... (-:

John V6, good story, thanks for sharing, yup riding a bike you are very much part of the machine in terms of weight distribution by the smallest of margins and more so the slower the rate of progress, which is a world away from the levels of isolation that the modern car driver experiences.

Graham, kickback.? Experienced many of those as a 14 year old, when us kids fell into ownership of an AJS 350 that we used to ride around in the local woods, it was ever a case of which one of us lightweight kids drew the short straw to try to kick start it, ever fearful of the dreaded kickback, until we got the hang of operating the advance and retard lever...(-: Of course kickback is perhaps more of a political necessity these days as opposed to a m//cyclists dread... (-: The last Trumpet I rode was an American import 650, think it was designated a TR650 which seemed a tad confusing..? It was a single carb oil in frame job with drum brakes if I remember correctly, I thought it a nice bike.

Rambled on as ever..

Stay safe folks.

That's a great looking Harley, I'm into the evo engined bikes, when my knees went I had to let go of my '93 Springer, my '92 Dyna that I took across the States for Harley 90th Anniversary celebrations and the one I miss the most the 1990 Fatboy Gray Ghost. Keep getting this Harley itch that I need to scratch again, now my knees are much better!

Never a truer word/sentiment said, just having the pleasure of opening the garage door and gazing on your pride and joy for some of those triggered memories collected over the years, often with rose tinted glasses but usually great memories. I have had periods of not having a Harley and I always felt something was missing.....but put a Harley in the garage even if I didn't ride it very often and life seems more complete......

regards

Colin,

Some Harley dealers went much further eg when the Roadking came out in '94 they were impossible to get hold of...the only UK dealership with any left was Manchester Bauer Millets and they would only sell the Road King with over £2k worth of accessories fitted, so they maximised their profits Same when the Springer Heritage came out, you could only get them loaded with accessories by the dealer, no choice this is what you get.

But the bubble eventual bursts and now Harley is struggling to make the levels of profit it made in the early 1990's when it only made about 45k motorcycles a year and now it makes nearly 250k motorcycles a year and much more expansive accessories and clothing business by comparison.

regards

John