Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Trying to start it for the first time (in 15 years

If the dizzy is worn, that may cause an intermittent spark but if the capacitor and points are good, and the coil is new then it should be OK.

Are you getting a consistent feed to the coil? IIRC, the feed goes through the rev counter so if you've got a issue there, it may affect the feed, so check the wiring at the back of it. May be worth rigging up a direct 12V feed to the coil for test purposes.

Terminology can be confusing with so many different terms used for the same item/task. Has the engine showed ANY signs of life...?

There is no earth wire as such in an old dizzy... the old style circuit is a bit of a daisy chain from the battery through a fuse on to the ign key from there to the coil, through the coil and in your case via to the black wire where it is screwed to the points assembly at the... ALL of which should have sound connections and be insulated from earth/ground up to that point... Until the points close, at which stage the circuit to earth is "generally" accepted as being switched on and the coil charges.

The condenser, is T`d in to the daisy chain at the points wiring termination/screw, and it`s purpose as best I can remember is to cut down the spark across the points to reduce burning of the points themselves, which in time would cause intermittent sparks at the plugs. if the old points are badly burned/pitted then chances are that the condenser is failing. But in your case having replaced both points and condenser should be no problem.

To finish the daisy chain the dizzy is bolted to the engine which it`s self will have a heavy earth wire connecting the engine to the chassis, and the chassis will again have a heavy earth wire attaching it to the battery thus the chain is finally completed, the chain/circuit only making and braking when the points open and close, and thus creating the spark at precisely the correct time.

Any loose or dirty connection in the daisy chain and sparks can become intermittent, and as you have discovered intermittent faults can be a real pain to find.

Any little plastic spacers/washers in the contact breaker/points assembly tend to be insulators and as such can be critical to the switching operation thus must be assembled correctly, though from a dull memory, in the FoMoCo dizzy there is little room for error compared to the Lucas set up of old..

All of which is the low voltage side of the circuit... and once the high voltage/ HT (high tension) has been produced by the coil heading back to the top of the dizzy cap to "distribute" it to the appropriate spark plug, there is room for other issues to arise..

In a bid to determine that the low voltage switching is happening at the appropriate time, perhaps if you removed all the spark plugs an attach one to the HT lead direct from the coil, have it mechanically held/ electrically connected to the engine block and thus earthed... and spin the engine over on the starter........ the plug should spark each time a rush of air is heard/felt to exit each one of the now empty spark plug locations in the cyl head...?

It might be worthwhile to have the fuel pump disconnected at this stage to avoid extra fuel vapours in the atmosphere while messing around with sparks... which if you have a weak heart or are having a bad day... could solve all your problems in life... So be careful.

More than happy to be corrected if any of my thinking seems/is flawed. I have been proven wrong before and will be again...no doubt. For sure there is more than one way to skin a cat and with a timing light or other kit was available, there would be alternative processes.

Good luck.

Progress ! We have constant sparking - this is after replacing just about everything - distributor cap, condenser, leads, rotor arm, coil, points and spark plugs.

On to the next challenge, the engine is still not firing so I guess it's on to the next step which, based on all the great advice I've received here is checking the fuel supply - great suggestion on disconnecting the fuel pump , far better than learning by experience ! My wife and kids thank you

Good news indeed that you seem to have regularised the production of sparks. As Arwyn suggests perhaps best to assume nothing, so perhaps checking the plug gaps, position of the HT leads relative to the firing order of the engine, then after that, ignition timing seems like the next logical step, hopefully you can perform an initial "static" set up, followed by fuel and the quality thereof, new fuel being desirable, all the way to the carb.

CAREFUL use of Easy Start can help determine whether the next issue might be fuel and/or carb related... Each and every step of the way will no doubt supported by your friends in the forum, should you need assistance..

Good luck.

Luddite (and everyone else) - thank you again. I clearly have a lot to learn but I couldn't have found a better support group !

I'm guessing it's carb related - I just tried Easy Start and I still have my eyebrows but no luck with getting the engine to start, my next step was to find the fuel filter and see if this is clogged and follow the line back and see if I can identify what the fuel pump looks like.

If you not even getting a stutter with Easy Start - then I'd suggest something is wrong with the ignition system/firing order/ valves/ timing.

The mechanical fuel pump is located on the same side as the dizzy - where the diamond silver blanking plate is in this picture.

Cool - thanks - we double checked the firing order and the distributor cables seemed to be in the correct order - 1243 - so I guess it leaves timing or vales ? There's a bit of splutter and smoke coming out of the carb but that's all.

Really appreciate the picture.

TBM - would that be the first picture here on this link ?

There does seem to be a good flow of fuel going in and out so I don't think that's the issue - would you recommend taking it apart to check ?

Trying to create an inventory of all the parts . I've got the Haynes manual for the crossflow and Morgan Owners Workshop Manual but I'm still having a challenge putting names to items.

Yes - the red one is it. If the fuel is flowing out OK, then that should be fine. Can't hurt to strip it and check the filter, although to be honest they're fairly cheap to replace.(£30 in the UK)

What Carb have you got? Have you checked the idle jets?

One thing for sure is that by the time you get this old crate up and running you will be confident to drive it anywhere...(-:

If you did not get any f*rts, pops, bangs or flames with easy start I suspect best to get back to basics..? If you are happy you have regular sparks, and the ignition leads in the correct order on the dizzy, and connected to the appropriate plugs on the engine, then the logical (?) next step is the timing of the sparks.

To ensure the spark arrives at the correct time at the appropriate cylinder is key. Both he rotor arm and contact breakers work in unison to achieve that end, in that as the lobe in the dizzy cam JUST breaks the connection between the two points... the coil generates the HT (high voltage).... which enters the dizzy via the central connection on the top of the cap and from there passes down through the cap and makes contact with the centre contact point of the rotor arm.... The HT then travels along the rotor arm and jumps the gap to the nearest metal segment on the inside of the dizzy cap, the external connection of which then passes the HT to the HT lead and on to the appropriate spark plug...on the.. Assumption... that lead is connected to the appropriate cylinder. As you have a workshop manual available hopefully there may be a pic relating to rotor arm alignment..?

For all the above to occur at precisely the correct fraction in time as part of the timing process, checking the rotor arm position is critical, as who knows if the dizzy body has been removed from the engine and replaced incorrectly... Assuming the engine ever ran as it currently sits seems less than wise.. Unless you KNOW it did..?

A quick check is possible if you remove the spark plug of any easily accessible cylinder have the spark plug held or connected to earth in order that you can view it sparking and place a finger over the spark plug hole... the plug should spark when you feel the blast of air exiting the engine which will be produced as you spin the engine over on the starter...

Should you find the spark does not fire at the appropriate time... then "assuming" it did spark, your timing is out for one or other reason.... Again assuming the plugs are not fouled with the oil you put down the cylinders in the earlier stages of your investigations..?

With the above you should have hopefully advanced your understanding of the process a bit...?

I apologise if you are way ahead of my line of thought. Being a slow thinker it is just that I tend to need to build on the basics in the hope of gaining a degree of understanding.