Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Black History Month

I'm quite hesitant when mentioning this, as successful execution is important, as is a need for flexibility in movement between types of school, but is there a need to go back to the 60's and 70's policy of secondary mods with more emphasis on producing the skill sets so necessary to our economy, the builders, plumbers electricians and the Grammar schools more equipped for those more academically qualified. I say this as someone who passed the 11+ and 13+ exams and ( with quite a few others) could not find a Grammar School place in the catchment area as there weren't enough places and class sizes were often already in excess of 40 and preference was given to the junior school pupils associated with the Grammar school.

We appeared back then to be more capable of producing thru the secondary mods schools and technical colleges the skill sets so necessary to offer students a trade/career path most suited to their abilities and the country's needs. Some will quite rightly claim its was fundamentally a discriminating system. However, I would balance that with what some may consider the undue pressure placed on students to go to university often to no real economic advantage. Case in point two of my nieces have completed PHD's entered the work force at 28 and 29 years of age with massive student debts, one is following her chosen career path but yet to earn £20k a year the other couldn't get a job in her chosen career and became a self employed dog groomer and is reeling the money in.

Colin your post was well timed and exemplified my point .

Colin,

Not so unusual back then for inner city/metropolitan kids. One of my school friends had to leave at 13 in 1968, his father a coal miner died quite young from 'black lung' and his family needed the money. Fortunately back then one could find a decent job simply walking in off the street and he landed a Instrument technician apprenticeship at the local steel works. But move the story on a decade or so and nearly everything was gone.

It's one of those conundrums, isn't it? Clearly an education system which is capable of identifying student's strengths and playing to them whilst at the same time being able to respond to changing needs in the wider economy is theoretically a much better system than a straight 'one size fits all approach', but one has to reflect on whether it's actually practically achievable.

Certainly I would agree that there are far too many graduates out there with unsuitable degrees and unrealistic expectations who are now saddled with crap jobs and large amounts of debt, and at the same time there are far too few young people who have in-demand practical skills and who would be able to make a really good living without a degree. I know guys who run extremely successful businesses: electricians, stonemasons, hard landscapers, painters and decorators, general diy businesses, and they are all monumentally busy and unable to recruit decent young people to learn the trade.

The problem as I see it with the old system was inequitable distribution of investment and resources and a highly class-driven approach that pretty much condemned working class kids to life as factory fodder and channeled upper-class kids into management roles for which they were eminently unsuitable - but this was a fault of execution rather than underlying principle. But are we in any better position to improve this were we to try again?

During my final school years as part of career guidance and counselling, we often would travel to local companies for the day to experience the shop floor and office environments, it only gave us a small taste of different work environments but at least it was something, I'm not sure whether that still happens today.

Having spent many years in different industries recruiting school leavers, Uni Graduates etc. over the decades it never ceased to amaze me how ill equipped they all were by the education system to enter smoothly into the work environment, I include my own experiences on entering into a professional career.

We certainly need a change of emphasis /direction, remove the stumbling blocks to and mitigate the expectation for those that seek a graduate path. Whilst raising the student's perception and standing in their eyes of key skills and trades that are so fundamental to our economy that do not require a degree path but are equally valued and often more economically rewarding.

At my grammar school, career advice was pitiful.

All they recommended was University. And that was the early 70's.

A big problem, as I see it, is the complete misunderstanding of what many 'shop floor' trades competence requirements are and the academic achievement targets set by educationalists.

For a time in my career I worked for the Road Transport Industry Training Board and sat on the advisory panel for the Motor Industry Training Standards Council. In that role I researched motor manufacturer minimum entry requirements for their apprenticeship programmes, most wanted 4 O levels.... this included BMW, VW, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Ford and Volvo.

The problem was exacerbated by the change in the type and complexity of work coming into dealerships. Gone were the days of large unit mechanical overhauls and repairs and the shift was more towards the bulk of work being basic and routine (routine services, brakes etc) and the remainder being highly complex diagnostics. No longer were main dealer workshops stripping and overhauling engines, gearboxes and axles.

The entry requirements for apprentices simply didn't reflect the needs of the shop floor, there is nothing in the attainment of a good grade O level that ensures an understanding at the level required to gain competence in the work coming into the dealership.

In fact as a test case I ran 20 apprentice applicants who had succeeded in obtaining an apprenticeship through Bennett Mechanical Comprehension Tests and AH4 and only a small % obtained the required mark to be accepted 10 years before. Good kids, but maybe an indication why so few completed their apprenticeships (fall out was over 70% at the time) or stayed on the shop floor post training.

I concluded that the sort of youngster who could/would attain a clutch of decent grade O levels is possibly not the sort of youngster that is going to gain job satisfaction doing routine services to motor vehicles for the rest of their working lives, they quite naturally wanted bigger and better things.

I put a paper up that went all the way to the Minister involved, of course it was rejected and nothing was done, we continued to exclude access to quality manufacturer training for a large group of youngsters who may have been ideally suited for the working environment and practices required. So sad, years later when i had the reins at Volvo and had control of its apprenticeship programme I introduced basic mechanical comprehension and aptitude testing as cornerstones of its recruitment and selection process.

Too little and too late I fear, 3 years after I left they dropped the programme on Fords insistence (Ford were the owners then).

BR
Colin

John

It was called WEEP (Work Experience on Employers Premises) a superb programme dropped when YTS was created.

BR
Colin

To be fair, the career advice my kids got in the early 2000s was no better.

Everyone should aim for University was the mantra.
No 1 daughter did, got a 2.1 Hons in Psychology and it had a positive impact on her career.
No 1 Son dropped out after 1 term, got a job with HPI doing IT support, has never looked back. A couple of changes and is now a Licensed GDPR Practitioner.

Careers advice? it is rare to find a school that has a clue.

University was worse...

My son has an aerospace engineering with Management degree, including a NPPL. He couldn't even fix a puncher on a push bike.

I know that feeling well…. Apart from being a pro rugby player our son got a law degree, LPC, worked on several high profile cases and is today senior legal council at an international food manufacturer.

He rang the other week to ask how to repair a rust scab on his cars wheel arch, will I need paint?

At least he asked I suppose 🤣🤣

BR
Colin