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Aug 24th, 2023
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Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
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Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
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A big part of the Green Revolution is to achieve a "Modal Shift" in transport and force / encourage people out of their cars.
Cynically, I wonder if a sufficient increase in tax / fuel tax relating to IC vehicles combined with an inadequate provision of infrastructure will achieve the desire to shift people out of their cars with no need to slip any of the timelines.
Having spent years commuting by train into the city, relaxing and reading the newspaper, on a journey which was just as quick as by car (if not quicker), and a fraction of the cost, the majority of my colleagues, and seemingly most of the city preferred to sit in traffic at extra cost. The car dependency culture will take a lot of shifting. Most of the people we know refuse to contemplate public transport.
DaveW
'05 Red Roadster S1
'16 Yellow (Not the only) Narrow AR GDI Plus 4
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[
Having spent years commuting by train into the city, relaxing and reading the newspaper, on a journey which was just as quick as by car (if not quicker), and a fraction of the cost, the majority of my colleagues, and seemingly most of the city preferred to sit in traffic at extra cost. The car dependency culture will take a lot of shifting. Most of the people we know refuse to contemplate public transport. I drove into London every day for 15 years - I had a garage under the office and it suited me well. In my next role, I caught the train every day and quickly moved to first class as I couldn't bear the phone calls and the continual loud consumption of food.... I sat next to someone once with a bucket of curry on one train home. A bucket. Added to this were the days when it all went wrong - which were frequent. A packed concourse at Waterloo, cancelled trains and a sense of impotence - I hated those days. So now I am back to driving in to London. I don't care how bad the traffic is - I feel in control and in my own space. I'm also doing it in an EV - so it costs about £4 each way (if that) - a fraction of the cost of the train and none of the discomfort.
+8 4.8
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We had a visitation from the Scottish and Southern Engineers over a couple of days during the week, because some people on the lane had a service failure.
It turned out that one of the 3 fuses between the transformer and the 240v supply was intermittently faulty, so they replaced all three.
I asked the engineer to explain why if we could pull close to 100A from the supply we could not put more than a few kw back and why the DNO had to approve all EV charger installations. His answer wasn't surprising, but was disappointing and confirmed my suspicions that those in Government who believe that Electricity can replace all fossil fuel use and CO2 release are, to put it bluntly, delusional.
Our electricity for 20 houses comes from one transformer that converts 11kv to 240v, 3 phase. Each phase is fused at 100 amps and the assumption is that even though each house on the phase could pull 80 amps they will never do so so the 100 amp fuse id enough.
Add EVs, replace gas with electricity and it would need household capacity to double a new transformer with at least 300A per phase which would, in turn, mean new cables and loop connection boxes. He told me that on our loop they would allow only two more home EV chargers.
As far as generating power and feeding it back to the grid the capacity of the grid to take additional power is limited by the same 100 amp phase fuses at the transformer. He commented that many applications by land owners to put PV arrays in place were declined simply because of grid limitation and the cost of infrastructure upgrading made the project unviable.
Overall in may rural areas the cost of infrastructure improvement to meet the demands of the "Green Revolution" will make the improvement of mobile phone signals and fast broadband look trivial and is unlikely to be achieved anytime soon. In my opinion whilst new pure ICE cars will not be sold the timeline for stopping the sale of plug in hybrids will slip, and slip, and slip simply because of the cost of infrastructure improvements will be prohibitive.
That is pretty near what the JEC supply planning engineer told me when we had to get our supply re-laid. Subsequently when I explored going for an ASHP the rep told me that the 100 amp supply would not be sufficient to guarantee a warm house, and the supply could not upgraded. So not too sure what I will do when heating oil is priced out of practical use.
Last edited by Rovert; 23/12/21 02:51 PM.
Brian
Jersey and Spain
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I looked at this. I couldn't see any details of the study except that it used a computer modelling thing based on future events..... It would be good to know the pedigree of this alleged study and who owns it. And where does the yale university come from? Can't see it referenced in the article.
Last edited by nick w; 23/12/21 04:17 PM.
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L - Learner Plates On
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L - Learner Plates On
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[/quote]
That is pretty near what the JEC supply planning engineer told me when we had to get our supply re-laid. Subsequently when I explored going for an ASHP the rep told me that the 100 amp supply would not be sufficient to guarantee a warm house, and the supply could not upgraded. So not too sure what I will do when heating oil is priced out of practical use.
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If there is a concern that 100amp supply isn't enough, I would be getting seriously concerned about the capacity to generate substantial electricity bills. 100Amps = 24KW at £0.229 per KWH thats bumping the bill by £5.49 per hour.
As a totally irrelevent thread drift, when we did some work at the Natwest tower it was calculated that if someone turned on all the lights at same instant, the starters on the fluorescent tubes pulled so much power that it would create a peak demand charge from the electricity supplier of over £35,000.00 (20+ years ago ) hence putting in control systems to stop anyone being able to do that.
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Talk Morgan Addict
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That is pretty near what the JEC supply planning engineer told me when we had to get our supply re-laid. Subsequently when I explored going for an ASHP the rep told me that the 100 amp supply would not be sufficient to guarantee a warm house, and the supply could not upgraded. So not too sure what I will do when heating oil is priced out of practical use. [/quote] If there is a concern that 100amp supply isn't enough, I would be getting seriously concerned about the capacity to generate substantial electricity bills. 100Amps = 24KW at £0.229 per KWH thats bumping the bill by £5.49 per hour. As a totally irrelevent thread drift, when we did some work at the Natwest tower it was calculated that if someone turned on all the lights at same instant, the starters on the fluorescent tubes pulled so much power that it would create a peak demand charge from the electricity supplier of over £35,000.00 (20+ years ago ) hence putting in control systems to stop anyone being able to do that. [/quote] I was told that starters for fl tubes used three quarters of an hours elec to get the bulb lit. After that they were modest. What a disaster they were....all that mercury or something when they broke too.
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Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
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Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
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We mustn't. however, forget all the work that's being done with regard to demand response and load balancing.
All it needs is a relatively bit of kit, probably in the form or a replacement consumer unit. that would enable you to specify load preferences, peak permitted consumption, time constraints and so on by individual circuit.
So you could do stuff like automatically drop the ASHP while you have a shower, only permit EV charging at low-demand times, give the cooker precedence over the heating, and so on. There's no reason why a well-managed house should get anywhere near breaching 80A/19KW at peak loading. Spread all your needs out over 24 hours and you have a total available energy budget of over 450 KWh/day, which should be enough for anyone unless they want an aluminium smelter in their back yard too.
The technology is all there, it's used in commercial installations now but I'm sure a simpler system could soon be made available for domestic settings. My solar system has a simple implementation allows remote control via Zigbee of devices by specified demand and preference order, which does a lot of what would be needed.
Nick's point about cost is quite right though, electricity is going to get very expensive in comparison to the artificially low prices we've been paying for the last few years. I've been warning about this for yonks now, but today I see that EDF has fronted up to tell us to expect 50% price increases. If they can hold it that low I'll be impressed. And don't expect to leave it to competition in the market, there won't be any, it's the wholesale price that's the problem and that won't be sorted for years thanks to our government's inability to implement a proper long-term energy strategy. (Cue lots of grumbling about how at least when we had the CEGB we didn't have to worry about that sort of thing, but which has been largely ignored since privatisation).
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
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If there is a concern that 100amp supply isn't enough, I would be getting seriously concerned about the capacity to generate substantial electricity bills. 100Amps = 24KW at £0.229 per KWH thats bumping the bill by £5.49 per hour.
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As we are all electric, the safe max was a would be 28amp for the heating (not to sure why TBH) which would allow something like an 8KW heat pump, much more than that will require a 3 phase connection. Electricity prices here are pretty cheap 15.68 per KWh (at the moment) partially courtesy of not having to subsidise the green initiatives and partially because of good hedging of our French power supply.
Brian
Jersey and Spain
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There's no reason why a well-managed house should get anywhere near breaching 80A/19KW at peak loading. Spread all your needs out over 24 hours and you have a total available energy budget of over 450 KWh/day, which should be enough for anyone unless they want an aluminium smelter in their back yard too.
Knowing the wide-ranging variation in members of this august forum you need to think further out of the box for 'unreasonable' lifestyle choices !! 😁 ![[Linked Image]](https://www.tm-img.com/images/2021/12/23/20201025_120955.jpg) Ps being into 'bush-tech' my smelting is solid fuel powered .... others may be less atavistic!! K
Last edited by Image; 23/12/21 06:13 PM.
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