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Aug 24th, 2023
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Charter Member
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Charter Member
Joined: Jan 2009
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Richard I wonder if anyone has changed their lead acid batteries for the lithium ion equivalents, the avantage here would be less weight but alas the charging circuit would need to be changed from a standard alternator? Dont know whether its the same for cars but for boats the lithium is 6 times as expensive. Given that my last car battery lasted 11 years, why would you even consider lithium?
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Joined: May 2015
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: May 2015
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Richard I wonder if anyone has changed their lead acid batteries for the lithium ion equivalents, Indeed I have on my M3W the avantage here would be less weight but alas the charging circuit would need to be changed from a standard alternator? Replacement batteries embed the necessary circuitry, so as far as the car is concerned its still a 12v Pb battery. The only thing to watch is the external charger - I replaced my CTEK for a Li-compatible one... Dont know whether its the same for cars but for boats the lithium is 6 times as expensive. Given that my last car battery lasted 11 years, why would you even consider lithium? My M3W's 2 Banner batteries lasted 3 and 2 years - as the Li battery was about 2.5x the cost of a decent Pb alternative I felt it was OK value 
M3W5sp 2015, MSCC, MTWC, Oxon UK
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Joined: Feb 2016
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Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Feb 2016
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Richard, many thanks for providing your acknowledged superior knowledge on matters electrical and much else from which I have learned a lot.
I guess my attempt was to reply to Rob`s thinking on the charge requirements of an AGM and it`s differences to that of old style lead acid batteries, for an AGM to operate efficiently.
I was quoted circa £500 to replace my 10 year old AGM battery thus I suspect any Morgan running an old style lead acid would have to investigate carefully as to the possible advantages or disadvantages which might exist, when thinking of replacing an old style lead acid battery with a similar capacity AGM battery.
I suspect if attached to an old style electrical system an AGM may not reach a fully charged state, whether that might affect it`s performance long term connected to such a system, I have no idea.
As for longevity, given my AGM would seem to be original to the car from it`s date stamp, and has lasted 10 years and circa 42k miles over that time, seems to indicate it may have spent most of it`s life in a situation of irregular use, and which might also seem to suggest that perhaps an AGM may well operate well enough in a seldom used Morgan.... again I have no idea...
However as to whether in those 10 years my AGM may have run flat or whether it lived much of the time on a float charger of some sort would seem to be anybody`s guess..? Genuinely surprised at the £500 you were quoted for an AGM battery George. I checked on AGM replacement for my Roadsters 075 series 60 amp hour battery and equivalent same brand, size and capacity came out at less than double the cost at £108. Even then I suspect the hike was down to supply/demand given conventional will suffice. I did notice a jump to 680 CCA for AGM from 540 CCA though. As already mentioned they employ same basic materials as conventional wet lead/acid with the justification for a premium price derived from the advanced construction maybe. Because AGM are so similar, charge profiles will be as well compared to conventional. The 10 years life you got from your AGM tending to support this. Yes they can take a tad more charge current in the same way they can release more given construction, but understanding that (theoretically) the lowest powered charger will eventually fully charge a lead/acid battery give enough time, that wouldn't be an issue. All lead/acid batteries benefit in terms of longevity from not being charged at a current above a certain amount, 10% of amp hour capacity in the case of conventional, abbreviated to 0.1C. In reality when you have the choice a rate as high as 0.3C is a reasonable trade off when charge times are limited, this being more applicable to boat service battery banks but useful to highlight lower charge currents can be beneficial.
Richard
2018 Roadster 3.7
1966 Land Rover S2a 88
2024 Royal Enfield Guerrilla 450
1945 Guzzi Airone
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,526 Likes: 37
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: May 2017
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Did the research when looking for a replacement battery for mine after the (new) lead acid failed after shipping to NZ( someone left it on). Settled on an AGM lying on its side as that was all the room Morgan left me, I realised that my existing ctek would not suffice as we have discovered in the marine industry and the battery maker recommends top charging capability to be approx 25% of the AH rate. So with a grunty Ctek and occasionally being plugged in (overnight every two months or so) she spins the old V8 with a will and I can relax.
99 plus 8 indigo
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,607 Likes: 192
Part of the Furniture
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Part of the Furniture
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,607 Likes: 192 |
Many thanks for taking the time to reply Richard.. The of £500 price was quoted to me for the supply and fitment of a replacement AGM battery of 80AH and 800A EV made by Banner in Austria, no doubt covers the time taken to physically remove the old battery, the cost relative to disposing it, time taken to fit then code in the new replacement. All of which does indeed seem rather expensive when a few minutes spent on the WWW can find a Banner battery of the same spec for circa £130, however minus the all important vehicle manufacturers label and QR code, which if fitted would contravene the terms of the vehicle manufacturers extended warranty..! The warranty requires that only O.E. parts are fitted to the car at authorised official dealerships. My guess is that as far as the manufacturer may be concerned the extended warranty will pay for it`s self over the years for them.
I suspect you well know of the requirement to code the battery to the car is to inform the intelligent charge control system that the battery has been changed, in order that the charging control system (the Gateway) can then re-set it`s programming relative to the history it holds of the old battery and the requirements thereof, to that of a new battery in terms of ideal charge rates relative to all of the many electrical demands placed upon the battery, stop/start being only one of many.
I believe that the charging voltage on my car can be between 12-16V when in operation which seems to indicate that to fit an AGM battery in place of an old style lead acid charging system that it may never reach a fully charged state, quite how that might affect the AGM long term..? I have read where if an AGM is allowed to drop to 60% of it`s capacity that it`s longevity is expected to suffer..
I used to think I knew enough about batteries to monitor and maintain them over 45 years... but not now..!
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