Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms I’ve had an idea…

My first Mog was a 1993 4/4 with cvh efi. Nimble, nice engine. About 110bhp so for a light car ok. The torque was the only drawback. I kept up with roadsters/plus8’s driven by enthusiastic drivers, but had to read the road, use gears/revs. Easy on corners but long straights showed the shortcomings. I realised a plus8 ( roadster as second choice) was the way to go.
Changed to the V8. So much better due to the more available torque at lower revs. Took a short spell to learn the response and it made long journeys better, ability to get a move on more relaxed, nice soundtrack ( the 4/4 had a straight through exhaust so was decent too).
The torque is the key. Available at lower revs. Makes short spurts ( overtaking) easier and safer. At 3000rpm the car comes alive, especially in 3rd gear. Forget max bhp as that is at higher revs and rarely used. Having torque in the revs range you normally use is the important factor. It amazes me when people map cars for more bhp but ignore where the torque is. Having it in the right place makes driving easier.

May I echo the view that Torque is at the heart of pleasure?

We tried a +4, hired it for 2 days, and then purchased a Roadster. We then migrated to a Plus 8, which we have loved since 2014. I've also wondered about changing because the car has a number of electrical/electronic gremlins as wonder if a Plus Four would have enough "grunt".

My "sort of sensible tin top" is a Tesla M3 Dual Motor which has 471 ft/lbs at 1 rpm.....it is amazingly quick but there is massive computer support to keep things reasonably safe. So it is somewhat soulless.
The Plus 8 has 361 ft/lbs at 3500 rpm and it is quick enough, given that there is no computer support. It has character in bucketfuls and a wonderful sound track.
But the Plus Four has 258 ft/lbs between 1000 and 5000 rpm. . . . . would it satisfy me? I'm not convinced, but I will take one out for a serious trial. I drove a very early production one and wasn't that impressed.

Interesting discussion.
Having just done a track day.(Snetterton) The 4/4 is as good, if not better than most of the others in the corners, but despite hitting the rev limiter on occasion the V8s & +4s & roadsters just flew passed on the straights. Cornering is addictive on the twists, but I can see why torque is a pure winner for real day to day life.

Straights are for fast cars ... Corners are for fast drivers 😁

K

Try selling that to a Top Fuel guy/girl at Santa Pod

Even without major tuning measures, the Sigma 4/4 Sport can gain more torque through simple chip reprogramming. It had been shown on the dyno that the torque was obviously deliberately weakened. The standard torque curve looks like a hammock. No idea why, maybe because Morgan had used crate engines for block heating power plants. Without torturing the engine, I quickly went from 120 to 170 Nm and more horsepower in addition with my sport manifold it is 140 hp on 795 kg. I would estimate that without the sport manifold the torque would also be enhanced via chip tuning.
In practice this is a significant difference. I find the torque very nice relative to its weight. Previously it was only 130 km/h possible in 5th on slight highway inclines, now it could be 170 km/h, I don't have to downshift. I write this in such detail because it really makes a difference. I'm not one of the very fast ones but one of the nimble ones.
That sent in advance, I unfortunately never had a Plus8 but three Roadster and a P4SS before I got my 4/4 in 2014. The package gives me the most pleasure of all. The feeling in the curve on the country road is unmatched. And on the highway I don't feel underpowered, which I did with 110 hp.

As for character, the 4/4 is more quaint than the roadsters, the tire dimension helps the suspension and with other than Conti tires you have very good grip. Coming Monday it goes again for 10 days through the Italian Alps from Cles to Aoste and to La Morra further south. My wife and I are already looking forward to the new ride with the 4/4 which can already speak Italian.

It's just my 2 cents, I can't judge what you will miss when your Plus8 is gone. The ideal would be to buy a nice and slightly tuned 4/4 (it doesn't have to be loud) and have both cars in parallel for a few weeks or months.


red is after reprogramming the chip.

I'd stick with the +8 you have and spend a bit of your spare cash refurbing and adding some of those items that you covet in those younger cars.

A lot of this is very dependent upon the type of motoring miles you do and your style of driving, I found I had little or no advantage in my Roadster over 4/4's and +4's during a pottering around country lanes in North Yorkshire and Cumbria the other week. In fact when going up some steep hills I was swapping gears as the gearbox ratio's were crap despite all the torque, and on steep hill starts it was impossible to pull away smoothly in first without spinning the wheels or stalling the engine, something I had never experienced before in my other Morgans.

I could relate to everything you mentioned with regard to the lack of torque on the CVH. However, I found it only really lacking when fully loaded with luggage etc for touring, but when new they were pretty fast when compared with performance of most contemporaneous tintops of the day...time has moved on.

Heinz, great post putting into context what can be done to 4/4's to increase the torque and make them a much more useable nimble car........

Thanks for all the replies chaps, yes I think I'd miss the V8 grunt but that may be compensated by a more appealing interior.

I had thought of freshening up my car, possibly using the Tornado chip folks near Shrewsbury, semi decent lick of paint over the front facing surfaces and even a retrim in a more satisfying colour (to my eyes), estimated budget £1.5k, £1.5K and £3k respectively (is that realistic?)

Or would that better be invested in an altogether fresher car??

May see if I can pop and try a lesser powered model next week.

thanks again

Gary

And hopefully much better ratios than the ZF manual in the Plus Four.

I am told the competition car does not get out of 3rd gear. When I drove it on the road I found both 5th and 6th were so far into overdrive that I just couldn't use them most of the time.

Torque is important for road use , but so is the ability to really push a smaller engine closer to its limits. If you want to try doing that with a +8 , then you are going need the SSL rear, or some lightening fast reactions. The extra weight , higher torque , and leaf sprung lsd rear axle make an interesting combination