Click here to return to the home page.
Classic Morgans
Who's Online Now
10 members (IcePack, Joe Speetjens, Mauli, t50, Sir Percival, RichardV6, MATTMOG, MDS61, DalesPlusFour, DavidR), 337 guests, and 58 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
John V6 71
+8Rich 67
DaveW 67
Newest Members
Ulfulf, Wilfried, Classic-Line, BrunswickGreen44, Franco Morgan
9,203 Registered Users
Newest Topics
Super Three chain drive conversion
by Alastair - 22/07/25 04:18 PM
M3W - Anyone know this car?
by Biggle - 22/07/25 01:40 PM
S&S X Wedge Engine Gasket Source
by Morgan Dude - 22/07/25 02:13 AM
Supermax sprocket
by Laurens - 21/07/25 08:26 AM
Morgan 3 Wheeler song
by Dutch - 21/07/25 12:31 AM
Technical drawings, dimensions, 3D model M3W
by Oskar - 20/07/25 04:13 PM
Goggle eyed
by Roady - 19/07/25 06:16 PM
Latest Photos
Motorworld München
Motorworld München
by Oskar, July 20
visit to Classic Remise Düsseldorf
my book
my book
by Oskar, July 20
More Pictures of the MHR Visit
More Pictures of the MHR Visit
by DaveK, July 19
Visit to the Factory- Historic Morgan Group
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics48,340
Posts812,975
Members9,203
Most Online1,046
Aug 24th, 2023
Today's Birthdays
PPP356
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 84 of 133 1 2 82 83 84 85 86 132 133
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 775
Likes: 27
Talk Morgan Regular
Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 775
Likes: 27
Originally Posted by RichardV6
It raises exhaust gas temperature David. Hot gas molecules move faster hence increased flow. This provides exhaust scavenging which allows cylinders to pump with less resistance hence some power gain.

Thank you once again for "translating" for me dear Richard. Curiously, unlike American, Canadians use the British form of English as our template. cheers

Originally Posted by RichardV6
Similar effect to wrapping exhaust down pipes.

Theoretically yes..though most people I see using them, wrap their exhausts hoping for lower engine bay temps. The move is deadly for mild steel
exhausts. The rust they produce is scary but they do cover to holes made.

As you can see from Rob's famous racer. (below) Rob was not amused with such things either and that was 40 years ago! I have never understand
the urge to wrap expensive headers and downpipes with discolored wet rags. Akin to putting a dish towel over a very attractive woman's head. As we
see, even that far back in the UK, ceramic coating has a more potent effect in every way. Even 30 years ago I found a 5bhp difference on a dyno
rolling road and that was with a stock 3.5 Plus 8s with stock MMC branch manifolds. Engine bay and passenger cabin temps plummeted. Its use
is a vestigial remain from other engine bays and marques, like Plus 8 oil coolers. grin2

That being said, I have learned to help moggers achieve whatever goals they want with their Morgans. Like my dear friend used to say,"I merely offer
advice on what I know and have tried. It does NOT matter whether any one follows it." winky There is nothing wrong in making mistakes. How else
can we learn?[/quote]

Originally Posted by John V6
I can understand the heat retention argument at the headers but my question remains what impact in real terms does that have on bhp. What bang do I get for £500?
I suspect the exhaust gas temp at the tail pipe will be similar if not the same so logically the overall back pressure will be similar. Has anyone measured the difference in actual flowrates, pressure drop & temperature?

Sorry John, I only tested the bhp (Noted in my recent post). And that was a LONG time ago. I was more of an amateur. Ceramic coating is also better now.
However, google searching will find you the facts you are looking for. But I mentioned, I only trust my own experiences.

I would much prefer to have ceramic coated mild steel exhausts and downpipes (assuming one has the latter. But who is willing to make mild
steel exhaust for the market any more?!!! The reasons are manifold. (PUN!!) smile Common sense and facts do not govern production, the market does.
Yours are not comments that one hears any more in the US, Australian or Canadian auto worlds. Forgive me but they ended decades ago.

Originally Posted by John V6
I'm guessing ceramic coating of a mild steel manifold would help reduce the surface roughness & deliver a similar but lower result.

Why would they produce a lower result?

[quote=John V6]Stainless stress cracks and also corrodes with chlorides like road salt & not all stainless steels are the same.

There are so many ss grades and not all are advisable. Ceramic coating is prettier than exhaust wrapping, if the right color is chosen, they never discolor
though lighter colors show burned flies and road debris, quickly cleaned with a bit of sanding every 2-3 years. The lower engine temps in the bay and cabin,
they are rust proof, impervious to all bit the sharpest impacts (I have not encountered such in 30 years and I lived at the end of a 3 kms gravel road.) And
they increase bhp (but by this time who cares!) But I only use ceramic coating on headers and downpipes. I am content with polished stainless for the rest.
The heat radiation has diminished and is out of the car by then..though my experience with the first Aeros has them hyper heating the broad section one
must cross while entering the cars. shocked2 https://www.jet-hot.com/galleries

I very much enjoy your use of the late L-Jet air filter holder. I was thinking of one while viewing the other homemade one. Bravo. You are a lateral thinker.

gmg

[Linked Image]

Last edited by gomog; 07/01/24 06:46 PM.
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 7,920
Likes: 216
Talk Morgan Guru
Online NoMood
Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 7,920
Likes: 216
Originally Posted by gomog
Originally Posted by RichardV6
It raises exhaust gas temperature David. Hot gas molecules move faster hence increased flow. This provides exhaust scavenging which allows cylinders to pump with less resistance hence some power gain.

Thank you once again for "translating" for me dear Richard. Curiously, unlike American, Canadians use the British form of English as our template. cheers

Apologies I missed your earlier post Lorne, though not the only one innocent

TBH if I go for this coating it will be mainly for cosmetic reasons.


Richard

2018 Roadster 3.7
1966 Land Rover S2a 88
2024 Royal Enfield Guerrilla 450
1945 Guzzi Airone
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 775
Likes: 27
Talk Morgan Regular
Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 775
Likes: 27
Originally Posted by gomog
Thank you once again for "translating" for me....
I was not being facetious, Richard. I was perfectly serious. smile

Originally Posted by RichardV6
Apologies I missed your earlier post Lorne, though not the only one innocent
laugh2 Longer posts produce more understandings, which often happens among enthusiasts. The flip side is that long posts are often skipped.

Originally Posted by RichardV6
TBH if I go for this coating it will be mainly for cosmetic reasons.
Whatever. (shrug) You should google the ceramic coating effects. British Formula racers have used it exclusively for decades.
If you decide to do it, a before and after dyno reading as I did would be definitive for all..along with temps in the engine bay and cabin. But that is expensive.

Good luck.

Lorne

P.S. DIY ceramic coating is far less effective as a rule and, at the very best, only lasts only a few years. You can apply lots of coating layers, but they won't bond
as well with the metal or each other. Pros use special solvents to get the coatings to adhere. Also they can coat the inside of the pipes, and we cannot.

Last edited by gomog; 08/01/24 02:10 AM.
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 170
Likes: 5
L - Learner Plates On
Offline
L - Learner Plates On
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 170
Likes: 5
Lowered and straightened my front number plate.

Made some straightforward brackets from some spare Aluminium sheet, holes are 65mm apart and need about 15 degree bend in them.

[Linked Image]

Polished the bottom of the grill to get some marks out, and purchased some new M6 bolts to improve the look and done.

[Linked Image]

The bottom of the number plate is level with the bottom of the overriders.

[Linked Image]


Mark
2015 +4 Ferrari Le Mans Blue
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,062
Likes: 57
Talk Morgan Expert
Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,062
Likes: 57
Originally Posted by Mark+4
Lowered and straightened my front number plate.

Made some straightforward brackets from some spare Aluminium sheet, holes are 65mm apart and need about 15 degree bend in them.

[Linked Image]

Polished the bottom of the grill to get some marks out, and purchased some new M6 bolts to improve the look and done.

[Linked Image]

The bottom of the number plate is level with the bottom of the overriders.

[Linked Image]

Well done!
thumbs


2005 4/4 1800ccm Duratec and a lot of HONDA CX500.......
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7,893
Likes: 241
Just barreling along
Talk Morgan Guru
Offline
Just barreling along
Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7,893
Likes: 241
Devilish job wink


Jon M
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 7,920
Likes: 216
Talk Morgan Guru
Online NoMood
Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 7,920
Likes: 216
No sign of half decent driving roads in the next week so took to the garage this afternoon. Left hand plugs changed for new NGK. Absolutely no corrosion found on originals which was my concern having seen those in GDI Plus 4's. Right hand side will have to wait as it involves inlet manifold removal for access.

Cain booked to ream in new bushes for kingpin replacement next week so switched to front end strip. Wheels, shocks, calipers and hub/discs removed easily both sides. OE kingpins now showing signs of wear, should be out tomorrow.


Richard

2018 Roadster 3.7
1966 Land Rover S2a 88
2024 Royal Enfield Guerrilla 450
1945 Guzzi Airone
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 777
Likes: 88
M
Talk Morgan Regular
Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
M
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 777
Likes: 88
Prepared for my upcoming rolling road session with a revised two stage rev limiter strategy.

[Linked Image]

Newman quote their Duratec Phase 2 cams as making peak power at 7,250rpm, I'm actually targeting a shade over at 7,300rpm where Caterham quote peak power arrives on their similar 360 spec Duratec, the 420 model lifts this to 7,600, but I'm looking to keep Monty safely under 7,500rpm given he still runs standard rods and I'd like to keep them where they belong....

I.E, inside Monty's block laugh2


IGNITION SOFT CUT

Basically cylinder pressures are being progressively reduced by pulling 0.5 degrees of timing for every 10 rpm added starting from 7,300rpm, which is 150rpm below my outright soft rev limiter target of 7,450rpm where a maximum of 7.5 degrees will be removed from the 100kPa column in my ignition table and at that engine speed.


HARD FUEL CUT

In addition to the ignition basted strategy and for complete safety I've also implemented a hard rev limiter strategy that switches off my Bosch 440cc Green Giant injectors completely cutting all fuel to the engine at 7,460rpm and assuming a MAP reading of 100 kPa or above is met, which clearly it will be!


WHAT REALLY HAPPENS?

To help demonstrate what the two stage strategy delivers I created the following table in Excel.

[Linked Image]

I'll be encouraging the dyno operator to shoot for 7,500rpm but letting my EMU Black work it's magic to stop him having any chance of ever exceeding this maximum engine speed.


WHAT ELSE?

Obviously I continue to run my existing knock and IAT ignition correction stratergies.

[Linked Image]

These will provide an additional layer of engine protection on the day.... in theory! exting

Last edited by Montegue; 13/01/24 03:54 PM.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,221
Likes: 122
Charter Member
Offline
Charter Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,221
Likes: 122
Monty looks like being safe. A good example of:
- Planning and Preparation Preventing Poor Performance


Paul
Costock, UK
2014 4/4 Rolls Royce Garnet Red
Disco 5
Teddy - 17h1 Irish Draught cross
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 777
Likes: 88
M
Talk Morgan Regular
Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
M
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 777
Likes: 88
Originally Posted by Paul F
Monty looks like being safe. A good example of:
- Planning and Preparation Preventing Poor Performance

Thanks Paul, TBH anything approaching 7,000 rpm on the road in Monty is a bit mentalist loud!

I should probably try harder but according to all my ECU logs 6,950 rpm is as far as I've ever taken him, so it'll certainly be interesting to see what it's like when we take the Duratec to 7,300 rpm and beyond in an enclosed environment, ear defenders might be the order of the day listening

My mate Dave will be going on the rollers after Monty, we're excited to see what his Honda K20 engined Z-Cars Mini (Molly) makes, here's Molly stretching her legs on YouTube with Petrol Ped:



We believe Molly weighs around 825kg and her Civic Type-R engine makes somewhere approaching 240hp @ 8,000 rpm, thats around 290 bhp per tonn in a classic Mini shocked2

Page 84 of 133 1 2 82 83 84 85 86 132 133

Moderated by  TalkMorgan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5