Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Monty Goes To The Dyno

I was first up on the dyno when Richard & I went. The smell of rubber was strong till they applied WD40 & more strapping so run 1 showed 160bph from memory vs 280 plus on the second.
£45 is dirt cheap I think we paid £75.

It is cheap John, but you get what you pay for.

At SRR you're on and off in a blink of an eye so it's all over before you know it, that's where my EMU Black SD card based logging system comes in as I can review the run later millisecond by millisecond sat in the comfort of my sofa back home..

The SRR Saturday Morning Dyno Shootout business model is all about volume, they've been doing it for years so have perfected the whole thing into a finely choreographed exercise. It's fine for getting a quick number on the cheap, but frustrating for me as I'm used to spending at least an hour or two on the rollers tuning load sites.

As I expected, the one thing the log did tell me is my IATs were up to 20c higher on the rollers than they are out on the road in the real world, the data suggests I could have easily been down as much as 5% from air density alone, that would put me at a true figure of 181hp at just 6,500rpm. If we then say wheelspin is the cause of the dip from 6,500rpm to 7,250rpm where the Newman cam spec says peak power should be, then extrapolate the line following its natural trajectory path, we would end up with a true 'on the road' figure of 192hp.

That's just a couple of the many reasons why I tend take these rolling road sessions with a large pinch of salt

Your posts on Monty remind me very much of a bygone era of Morgan, whereby there was ever quite a number of owners who were modification minded in search of more performance, since things in terms of vehicle control systems became ever more digitally controlled it seems the drop off in those keen to get the tools out and get in amongst it all in search of "improved" engine and other aspects of handling at least in Morgan circles had dropped off a cliff...? All of which seems perfectly logical for a multitude of reasons, all that aside it is good to see that someone seemingly keeps the spirit of Morganeers of the past alive and kicking.... Thanks for the degree of detail in all your posts to date, not that I may understand it all or even much of it these days, but a big thanks just the same..Power to your elbow... and your Morgan of course..

Very true. We did get a lot of time on the rollers. I see dynos as you do. Idicative but not definitive for the reasons you state.
Here is Belle's second run.

Nice work Dave. Hope you are signing up to a Prescott club event this year?

What a lovely post Luddite, since joining the Morgan community so many people have made me welcome like this the whole ownership experience has been massively enhanced, I've learnt an enormous amount from all you guys which I am eternally grateful for.

Tuning Monty is just a bit of fun, and all I'm really doing is taking elements of Duratec knowledge from the ST150 world and Caterham, and applying them to Monty with a bit of my stand alone ECU and mapping knowledge thrown in.

Actually that reminds me, I couldn't connect my phone to Monty's EMU Black bluetooth system because so many of the guys there turned up with cars running on an ECU Masters system the network was crammed with addresses. Having worked with many engine management systems I can see why too, the EMU Black is by far the best stand alone ECU I've ever experienced. Better still, the Duratec Morgan Plus 4 Plug & Play system from Greg at Road Race & Rally makes installation a 10 minute job, its comically easy so I'm surprised more people on the TM forum haven’t adopted it?

Anyway, for me owning a hobby car is all about tweaking and tuning to make it your own, I come from a background of improving British classics long before the ghastly 'Resto-Mod' was invented. My TVR delivered this ownership experience more than any other for me, talk about a flawed diamond! My Chimaera would tease me constantly by being beyond brilliant one week and then returning to its default dreadful the next.

After that I then went a bit mental in the lockdown and changed it for a 2013 Ason Martin V8 Vantage with 470hp and all the bells and whistles, not long after scratching my James Bond itch I realisied I was in a vacuous relationship, I felt like Donald with Ivana, beauty and power isn't all it's cracked up to be folks. With more power comes bigger tyres, and with bigger tyres comes dull steering, as the horsepower goes up further the brakes must be bigger too and that means more unsprung weight demanding bigger dampers and springs, before you know it you're driving around in a very fast but also very heavy cruiser.

To ruin it further the safety police then pop up and try to tame all that power with driver aids like ABS, traction control, stability control etc etc etc, my Aston Martin had the lot. And honestly, what's the point in owning a hobby car that can't be improved upon? My uncontrollable addiction for bad electronics and iffy handling I'd carefully cultivated over years of TVR ownership needed feeding, enter stage left Monty with his untempered rear leaf springs and temperamental PCB behind the dash.

Suddenly I was a happy man again, but Monty just needed a bit more power

Dave, as I also use the EMU Black with my Elise, is there any chance to read OBD2 data? Perhaps a kind of interconnect or a can bus configuration?

I don't think so Heinz.

But speak with ECU Masters to find out for sure, there are certainly no issues with CAN BUS as most of the common protocols are presented to you on a drop down in the software, basically just a click away

I love my EMU Black, it would be a good stand alone at twice the price but for what I paid it's absolutely outstanding value for money, and being Plug & Play it's also a comically easy installation for any Duratec Morgan Plus 4 owner .

Highly recommended!

I'm a BOC member Graham, which I view as a privilege!

Prescott is such an iconic part of British motorsport history, in my opinion it's a living working museum like Pickersleigh Rd, an important part of my identity and British culture.

My history with the breed goes way back, my best friend's father ran a Type 55 Bug which made such a powerful impression on me as a young man that many years later Monty was chosen as my best impoverished attempt to come close to such automotive royalty.

Here I am sneaking a seat in Ed's insanely rapid Type 51.



Also, a little known fact is that Tim Dutton’s engine builder was responsible for fabricating Monty’s inlet and exhaust manifolds

See you at the garden party, I have six runs up the hill all booked

Dave, I've followed your journey with some interest as I started something similar with my old 4/4. Firstly tuning the 1800 Silvertop Zetec and latterly transplanting a 2.0L Blacktop Zetec. (before I was seduced by the Roadster) Bear with the initial descriptive stuff because you may not have seen my older posts a few years back.

I used a basic Omex ECU which didn't have much in the way of real time data-logging so I did most of my development work on a friendly local dyno.

While I was playing with the 1800, I went through a few stages. Firstly I ripped out the original ECU and wiring and put in the Omex together with removing the Morgan intake and MAF meter but retaining the standard Ford plastic inlet manifold and throttle body. Aluminium on the old silvertop if I recall.

I also fitted the Librands manifold and exhaust system but retained the standard (400 cell ?) cat.

Can't remember the numbers but I do remember being very pleased with the initial dyno set up and runs which prompted me to carry on the tuning so I had some very mild head work done (standard valves) and fitted a fast road cam (Kent).

Went back to the dyno and played about with the mixture and ignition mapping and was hugely disappointed. Very little gain in horsepower and a horribly lumpy torque curve.

Dyno mans first thought was let's alter the cam timing a bit because the standard settings for the new cams might need tweaking to suit this set up. However, I had not fitted vernier cam pulleys so we couldn't play any more.

So abort that session and go home to fit some vernier cam timing pulleys and then back a few days later to play with the cam timing

We played about by advancing and retarding the cam timings and in the end we did get better results both in peak horsepower and a smoother torque curve but still nowhere near what I expected.

He felt that the problem was that the cams were trying to produce peak hp at 7000 rpm but the manifold was tuned for the standard cams at about 6000 IIRC and so they were in effect fighting each other.

I didn't want to start playing with throttle bodies and in any case I had a brand new 2.0L crate engine sitting in the garage so I stopped the 1800 work and dropped the 2.0L in using the standard inlet manifold and throttle body and the same Librands exhaust and Omex set up from the 1800.

After running the engine in for a few miles I went back to the dyno, tweaked the fuel and ignition mapping and we got 160hp @ 5920 and 157lbsft @ 4420 rpm. But as I said earlier I was then seduced by the Roadster

Anyway, when I saw your dyno run it brought a few thoughts to mind.

I don't think you are getting wheel spin at 6500 rpm because that's well past where peak torque is occurring and assuming this was a 4th gear dyno run the transmitted torque to the rollers shouldn't over power the traction with the 2.0 litre engine unless the drum was very slippery. (Usual caveat. I could be totally wrong)

When you are happy with the fuel and ignition mapping, I would be tempted to look at the cam timing and adjust it a bit to see if you have got the Newman cam optimised for your engine set up. A few degrees advance or retard could make a significant difference.

It might also be worth considering if the length of your intake runners are in tune with the cam profile. IIRC you have fairly long runners on the inlet which should give good low down torque but are the pulse timings matching the camshaft inlet timings. Just a thought.

Seeing what you're doing with Monty sort of makes me wish I still had my 4/4 2.0L Zetec to play with.