Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Plus 8 engine queries

Forgive me, in 55 years..I have never heard "agricultural" used in reference to a 215 or most of the LR/Rover variants. Though I have seen one in a tractor , often in
motorboats, even in motorcycles!

The engine was re-purposed by LR, (Rovers were more sprightly). The torque range moved WAY down to suit a very heavy 4x4. Then the UK exports for overseas were gutted
even more with extremely low compression (8.13:1) to meet super low emission levels of the day. The TR8s had EFI fueling and 138 bhp!!!) But a glance at the Australian
variants or John Eales or merely bit of simple tweaking by an owner and it easily reaches the engine dream ideal of one horsepower per pound (.45 kilo) Road & track called
t a Porsche killer. Fastest car in the world at speeds of 20-80 at one time.

It is a crude engine that produces prodigiously while weighing very little. It is universally accepted that Peter Morgan saved his company by choosing it. At one point he was
thinking of the Stag engine! I like it because, like all engines older than a decade, (this V8 is over 60!) there are so many options with what a mogger do with it.
The aftermarket is enormous with scores of carbs, EFI fueling systems, manifolds, exhaust systems, radiators.


Very much so... but it was gentrified by your countrymen in 1977. Cured many of the shortcomings until some sad one were added in 1989/90. Actually, the sale was a mistake
for both countries. To finance the deal, the fine British 4 cylinder technology was sold to a country that everyone KNEW couldn't compete with the US/UK. Japan! Within a
decade and since, that turned out to be...er.... a mistake for both.

The other things I like, aside from the ease of working with these odd engines, is that they use old American firing order which creates the legendary V8 exhaust note and the
engine configuration can fit into the original Morgan 1960s engine bay (aside from a minor modification for the earlier (BIG) Lucas alternators.


The engine was made for a volume rather than a high pressure oil system. At idle you can drop to as low as 12 psi without panicking. With the GEMS and then Motronics they
changed to a crank driven oil pump (which unfortunately cannot be changed without the entire front cover. It raised the pressure enormously, to no effect. Doesn't bother
UK/European Morgans as the MMC kept using the old system until 2000. I change my oil every 3000 miles unless I am on a trip. They are always more than that and it is
back road driving which makes oil last longer. I have taken my engines apart regularly enough to know that this works. The innards look great..a very light golden color!) much
like the propane Plus 8s.

I have seen these engine go past 400,000 miles with reasonable care. But the blocks keep getting more seasoned, constantly better, stronger, especially the 3.5s. One merely
over- bores them a tad, leaving you with a better block than new. Sadly, after LR went to the 3.9 , the block bore (3.9, 4.2, 4.6s) became less stellar. They should have left the bore
alone and stoked the thing, like the American hot-rodders with their 215s. That being said, none of this bother Morgan Plus 8s of any bore. Mogs don't have enough
load to crack the blocks or slip liners. Only heard of that once in 30 years.


Right again! British Racers regularly swap in a T5, or a custom T5 (from the US) with a great choice of automobile ratios, rather than those made for a truck. I have been wistfully
thinking of that for decades. I swapped out the LT77s for R380s with all three Plus 8s in a 2 year period 1999-2002. At the time, new, they cost under 1000 quid. But now I can sell
for 2500+. They smooth the shifting to the level of a T5 and its variants but the ratios are the same as the LT77.

gmg

Plus 8 tuned Rover 3.5 EFI
Plus 8 tuned low compression LR 4.6
Plus 8 tuned high compression LR 4.8

All engine have weaknesses,and these can much worse or better depending on the owners. One can learn so much about the owner of any special car just by examining it.
Give me all the numbers you will find on a little shelf between the center two spark plugs on the passengers' side. See pic below.


Shouldn't effect you at all with that car.. Not only do Morgans not have the weight, but the cracking only became a plague (for other, non-Morgan cars using the engine) after they
(LR) were forced to another fueling system by regulations, GEMS then Motronics). Leaner fuel mixtures produce more combustion chamber heat. MY freidn John Eales has
another theory, but it doesn't cover the lack of the plague with Morgans. But I like the theory!!!!


Very different and both very fine Morgans. Morgans are like wine, models have great years.

I believe a 3.0 has a higher top speed but even an untouched stock 1995 Plus 8s will accelerate faster. You can see that at the Morgan meets. The Roadster go faster in the straights
while the Roadsters lose time tp the Plus 8s in the corners. With minor sorting, they are both great Morgans.

gmg

P.S. You also must do a compression test of any pick. And while your at it, take an image of a spark plug. You have to remove them all anyway. If you see one that is not representative
take an image of it too. Ignore mileage aside from bargaining.

That Lorne was a really good assessment of the V8 and true of the V6 too.. for me on our welsh roads I just couldn't get the V6 roadster to be comfortable and driving briskly shall we say, I found on changing down I always needed the next gear down as the ratios just aren't close enough and the MT-75 box was perfect for me. some describe this box as difficult but working for Ford during the development of the original Sierra Cosworth I just can't agree and in the Mog its the remote linkage that is problematic, not totally in design but that it suffers from an area of location in the car which gets turbulent air and being close to the ground the open linkage which is greased gets covered with road grit and just becomes horrible in action. I find I am cleaning and re lubricating mine about every 1000 miles.

I also agree with Lorne in that a 3000 ml oil change is the ideal for the V8 although in a Morgan with really no weight 5000 is probably ok. My reasoning being that most owners won't cover more than that annually and the gentle demand driving a Morgan rear end is kind to the LT77 or R-380. The R-380 is a far superior box and sorry Lorne but the LT-77 is a bit tractor like! Oh, and I'm afraid the V6 also has a land rover fitment gearbox although of Ford design and manufacture, again though a great improvement on it's predecessors. The 3.5 has gone as far as 4.6 now along with other developments but as Lorne has said there's now't wrong with the 3.5 and it certainly sounds the business!
Anyway I like carbs! Oh how sublime they are! where ever you put the throttle they respond and work perfectly!

Don't flatter me dear Sewin. Morgan trads are my passion and I could go on forever (or try).


You are observant and wise. We share opinions. All cars have issues. Most ignore them and allow their fun to shrink. Others see them, fix them and or find ways to drive that largely eliminate them.


Actually, the cognoscenti suggest 1500 miles with the Plus8 engine oil and 3000 with the Salisbury and MUCH more with a LT77. But the type of driving is a big factor and I rarely do urban
driving. The R380 axle can easily go 40,000 miles with the correct fluid and the later BTR, also used in BMWs (and Australian pickup trucks) is rated to 50,000 miles (I am happy with 25,000 miles). I
thought it safer to ask BTR engineers. MMC information is often merely anecdotal. I have DEVOL bushes, Mulberry's bearing thingies and hardchromes. They don't seem to need much but
I go under the car for peace and quiet.



I am a long distance mogger (a rather rare species) ...but you are right. Most Morgans are VERY lightly driven..so few care about perfecting them. (sad) The merely are lax with the maintenance a
spend huge sums to address that with odd and very expensive stuff that adds nothing to a properly maintained Morgan save make it break down quicker. BUT I can't blame them. Who wants a
painful car to drive, regardless of who's fault it is? So if the choose to spend an unnecessary 2000 to make it more palatable for a short time while making it impossibly more complex, I am not
going to point a finger.

You would be surprised at the last LT77 Morgans were fit with. The suffix "H" also known as the LT77S). It used a dual synchro on 1st and 2nd gear. It was matched wit the last Salisbury, known
as the 12HA rather. The 12HA was a joint effort of Salisbury, Morgan and Quaife! Sadly, it too kept the same ratios. but the combo is the best of any of the stock Plus 8 line.

Yes, from the perspective of engine integrity, the 3.5 was the best block. and it is easily, safely upgraded. I lean toward greater capacity because it is always the safest route to more power. Rimmer
Bros used to sell a 6.0 L rover V8. 4.8 was my bag because it is merely a change to better pistons.

I lean towards the Tremec gearboxes because they are light, have the right ratios, the parts
are plentiful and getting constantly upgraded to this minute and the Morgan knowledge of them is DEEP.

I enjoy our exchange.

Lorne

Excellent Lorne,

Good info there! I think your statement about a properly set up Morgan is above all the one that all Morganeer's should take away. Whichever Model you have, this coupled with good maintenance is the route to pleasurable driving and ownership. Trusting others to service and inspect your prized, at say an annual service /MOT is not the way to go and I don't care how good their reputation, it's just not enough!

An example, Take greasing the steering. Modern tec's have a limited knowledge of greasing via nipple's and they certainly won't know how much grease can be required for hubs and pins. they'll give it 3-5 squirts and think its done! If you don't believe me check by doing the job yourself until you have grease showing from the correct areas, you might be shocked at just how much you use! But your steering will be so much better for it. I tend to re-grease mine after no more than 250 miles and 1-2 squeezes shows grease escaping and my steering stays good! Oh! And my hub's dry too! Having worked in the motor trade I have seen it all! grease dabbed on by finger to the nipple to make it look it's been done, I've even seen this done where a blanking grub screw replaces the nipple due to rotational inference! Or when I knew a nipple was blocked! Favourite is they don't have a grease gun or one that'll do the job. My 2010 car had totally incorrect nipples fitted to the prop shaft spiders, too short to allow a grease gun to seat so I can only assume that they were all like that from the factory! So who managed to grease that!

I get why people install remote greasing but they suffer with too much or too little grease in the right places. If you must have this system fit the remote nipples to the front of the car so you can see what you are greasing! The tube is cheap!

Owning a Morgan should be accessible to all who love them at a price point to suit them and learning to look after it should be part of the pleasure. Remember Mr Morgan made the cars to be worked on on the owners drive with rudimentary tools and apart from engines/gearbox's nothing much has changed with them! So go and have some fun, learn the basic's and enjoy acheiving solutions!

Back to the OP's question...

I have two local Mog pals with longstanding (from new) ownership of Plus 8's, one is a 1983, the other 1987, they both cover intergalactic mileages and each had engine rebuilds around 10 years ago by John Eales, one is a 3.9, the other a 4.6 that's been dyno'd at 297 BHP !

They are both hands on owners who self service and have had no significant issues with the JE engines

Personally, as many know I'm a Roadster owner BUT despite the V6 being younger I think there is better tech and parts support for the Rover V8 engines...and always will be

But, test drive each, they are quite different machines