Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Trad prices

I'm not sure I entirely follow your logic here. Why is it not a good thing, it's just the market in operation. Any car, no matter how expensive it was to buy new, is only worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it, and as spares become harder to obtain, so the value comes down - and especially when, as you say, we are looking at a considerable decline in the popularity of ICE vehicles.

It's entirely likely that a 20 year-old Aero 8 is going to need some potentially expensive work being done to it, but that's exactly why the value falls and they tend to go to people who either will maintain them themselves or will simply run them into the ground and scrap them when they won't work any more. Autotrader has got 40 Bentley Continentals for sale at sub £15k, or 23 Rolls Royces at sub £25k. Against this background I find it somewhat optimistic that people still expect to realise £50 to 90k on an Aero8.

For an impecunious motoring enthusiast who is handy with tools and not afraid to compromise originality for practicality, Morgans are starting to be an attractive and affordable proposition, after all, they are a heck of a sight simpler and easier to work on than a Bentley Continental!

One of Morgans like early Land Rover selling points, key characteristics, attributes is the number of cars still in existence of the total made. That in the main is due to the body of aging enthusiasts who keep their cars on the road, in spite of all the challenges.

But things are changing for what many consider a 'toy' car, as the once bullet proof 'investment' slides down the once unheard of depreciation spiral. Poor quality, poor engineering, idiosyncratic attributes, poor ride, heavy maintenance etc., was often more easily tolerated, if the 'asset' had high residual values. So the cost of getting in and out the brand didn't carry too heavy a burden/price tag..The Morgan used car market is littered with low ownership low mileage cars, rarely used, with one former saving grace, if you got it wrong it didn't cost you much to get out of it.

But that picture is changing as trad and CX prices tumble, and so it may dilute the esteem/brand premium associated with the Morgan brand, to justify the higher new prices achieved. For example you rarely see a second hand £5k+ Rolls Royce on a RR dealership forecourt with new cars costing £250k and upwards, as it dilutes the perceived exclusivity ,eliteness and accessibility to the brand. Those cheap second hand Rolls Royce exist, but not visible to the customer looking up what unique features they can build into their car whilst in the RR dealer showroom.

What does it mean for the existence of Morgan longer term, if depreciation becomes a major factor/feature in the 'value' equation, that didn't exist say 5 years ago. How many prospective buyers beyond the core of enthusiastic owners, will venture down that path of Morgan ownership, when comparing 'like with like' with other open topped motors if depreciation and reducing residuals now feature hugely in the equation, where they didn't before. The once low cost 3 year rental plans become a much bigger financial burden to bear and can influence more the buyer's criteria.

When it comes to running old cars into the ground , that's fine with me. The often sad aspect of that reality is t those cars tend to disappear more quickly and lost forever. But its' something we need to increasingly get used to in a more accelerated time frame as the ICE has had its day and like work horses before them, will become a thing of the past and a rare sight.

Not every one is hands on, if fact all my neighbours are in their later years of life and absolutely none of them maintain their own cars, whilst they will undertake other maintenance work around eg the house.. So increasingly the cost of repair to value of the car figures far more in their thoughts, as they seek more reliability , ease of operation and increasingly easier entry and egress in their transport choices.

As I said I see very few young people driving Morgans compared to when I first got one in the 80's. They are perceived as an old man's game and it's running out of steam.

John, it seems we may think along similar lines relative to the probable if not real decline in the reduction in the availability of spares as a section of the classic car market declines.

While I may struggle to remember whether or not I put sugar in my tea a few minutes previously, I do remember circa 1969 ish, a time before the Classic press appeared on news stands, when old cars were thought of as bangers, and it was generally thought that it was the make do and mend brigade who ran those old bangers as an affordable hobby. Car Mechanics being the magazine which provided much of a support system for old car enthusiasts and provided much of my early education as I transferred across to four wheels from years of reading Motorcycle Mechanics mag.

I remember the then editor of Car Mechanics had taken on a project of restoring a Jaguar XK 150, and such was the degree of rot on one of it`s doors that it was deemed to be well beyond repair. apparently he was both surprised and delighted to find an old stock yet new door at a Jaguar dealership in either Inverness or Aberdeen at the time, and reported that it was probably the last door of it`s type available in the UK...

How things change when today there would seem to be craftsmen a plenty who could create an XK 150 door from a bare sheet of metal, but then no need, as with the passage of time I suspect you can buy every body panel for E types if not XK Jags from specialist suppliers. The name Rubery Owen comes to mind as having purchased or recreated original presses and formers from motor manufacturers at the end of line..?

It seems with the appearance of Classic status for old bangers was proclaimed by the then (1972?) arrival of the magazine Classic Car on the news stands, which turned bangers into Classics almost overnight, not only that but with the addition of assumed investment potential, and from that grew into a booming industry backed by the arrival of disposable income for the baby boomer generation which a few years later became the easy money years boosted by Thatcher`s deregulation of the banks and boosted classic car values ever higher, around which a whole restoration industry was created to supply parts...

I suspect that the values of average Classics were and are directly linked to the baby boomer generation, though top end and rare Classics seem to now be regarded as works of art might be, thus would seem to attract well heeled investors, whereas even E Types in other than as new, or more likely better than new condition, would seem to be struggling to find a buyer at anything like the value they were at perhaps five or ten years back..?

I suspect we may well be witnessing the end of an era created by baby boomers....? As for fast Fords, I suspect they might have a life cycle of perhaps another ten years, until time catches up with their aficionados....?

It seems possible that the MMC may think along the lines of pushing the brand further up the income scale to attract more wealthy individuals....? I hope it works as a strategy keeping all the folks employed at the MMC doing all that they do, and well into the future...

Rubery Owen, Bean Industries http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/articles/Tipton/Bean/Cars.htm , H J Barlow nut and bolt manufacturers etc. ,just a few names and suppliers to the car industry were all just a short distance away, when I lived in the Midlands. Now all gone and the sites levelled and transformed into housing estates. Sad end to it all and with it all the wealth generation and employment opportunities. Like many industrial conurbations, its often hard to understand these days (as its all gone) as to what was produced, in what was once one of the largest industrial wealth generating areas in the world.

What will hopefully keep Morgan going is a continual process of quality improvement and an exciting model line-up, The up coming death of the ICE and not as yet known how Morgan will create an unique selling proposition car with EV running gear amongst a massively competitive and innovative market. Where increasing use of technology becomes the accepted norm even for the most mundane of EV vehicles and even the most established of car manufacturers are struggling against the rising might of the Chinese..

Dipping into the insurance renewal market as it's due in June, I've obviously gone to the proper Co's for quotes but thought I'd test the online meerkats etc...

The automated valuation lists my Mog at only very slightly over 50% of it's agreed value...eek !

John, I am afraid that the mass destruction of the country`s industrial heritage affected some areas more than others, and living in one such area myself, and having witnessed the processes of evolution that came with H&S in the workplace, digitisation, cost cutting prioritisation, downsizing, delayering and now robotic advances, I guess I feel that I was fortunate to be born where and when I was, as it seems to have well suited the kind of person I am... what`s more to want...? Though I do wonder what sort of future might be ahead for society in general.

Seems we and the UK may be more into creating regulatory restrictions for industry than we might be at producing the desired goods and services that might be required..

I do sincerely hope that the MMC can retain the niche market attraction they have held for so long, even as they move further away from the coach building and hand crafted skills employed up until Superformed wings took over from the hand rolled body panel forming processes of the past..? I think Superform process may have been adopted not too long after JHJ suggested to both Peter and Charles that the business needed to modernise....? I guess it might even be possible that in time robots may make an appearance at the MMC as resisting evolutionary processes must be somewhat of a struggle, so types the selective aged Luddite... (-:

Trad prices seem set to follow trad skills, as those who appreciate the nuances of such craftsmanship logically seem to dwindle in number....?

CooperMan, pretty sure you will well know that there can be oh so many returns other than financial from Morgan ownership, perhaps wise to enjoy that which we can and while we can....? (-:

I never liked the term the baby boomers generation, I tend to count my blessings being born post the discovery and widespread use of penicillin, post the introduction of the NHS and before people needed calculators to do simple arithmetic generation.

Just a two word description that encompasses the reason for the issue in question, and so many others John..?

I had a Morgan in 1974 when I believe I was given my first calculator ( Texas Instruments) by my then oil company employer . We turned it upside down to reveal Shell oil in the display ( not my employer) and a few rude words !
As a baby boomer, I seem to be able to do maths and calculations in my head . I rarely if ever put a point in the wrong place although I wish I could with the price of new Morgans !
I did a mental calculation on the daily cost of the Chagos payments yesterday when it was announced. My god I hope my decimal point is in the wrong place but it’s not ………just do it and tell me it represents a good daily cost/value ?!

Think for a change I will do the lottery today. If I win the £150+ million I still would not buy a new Supersport .
Enjoy the weekend, M
PS so unsure about a’new’ Morgan (CX) or doing up my plus 8 . Not sure this site has clarified/crystallised or confused this non hands on Morgan lover…..

A little off piste but…The beauty of being brought up with the slide rule meant that you always needed to know the approximate result and where the decimal point needed to be.