Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms A slightly provocative question

I have a preference for earlier trads ... but that doesn't translate into any strong dislike of later cars ....and I always enjoy a chat with any Morgan drivers I come across.

Intersting to see the comparison with Harleys (which I also run) .... both makes have a 'break-point' ... a time where the marque changed on a qualatitive way (whether for better or worse depends entirely on the taste of the observer) .... with Harley it was the end of the Shovelheads ...the Evo, twin-cams etc etc that came after were a different breed mechanically and the ethos changed from making one model for years to the more modern one of constant model-chopping. With Morgan there's the arrival of the aeros and the eventual break of the CX models .. but for me there was a subtler foreshaddowing .... somewhere the cars changed from a cheap and cheerful 'everyman's' sports car to a 'gentleman's carriage' ... still a full sports car but whereas my '70s car is decidedly basic, with interior panels of leathercloth covered ply and a very 'garage-made' feel, later cars are far more luxurious (if you can use that term in the same sentence as Morgan) with crafted leather and carpets and the engines and tech trappings of a modern car .... I'm not well versed enough in the different models and changes to know the exact timeline for this but there will be some here who do!

Getting back to the op's point ... within the species 'Morgan Owner' there a number of sub-species ... from the likes of me who are drawn to the basic rattly little four cylinder 'pre-war car that never knew when to die' ... through the owners who enjoy the craftsmanship of the later trads to those who value the handling and performance of the CX and its individuality in a bland computer designed motoring landscape .... not many would swap (though some lucky souls may have a cross-species collection to get the best of all worlds) ... but I've never known personal preference to seriously hamper the harmony of shared Morganeering.




And then there's the three-wheeler owners ... but they're all bonkers 😆


K

Maybe the common break point with both Harley and Morgan was the change in ethos and direction that came with a change of ownership. In Harley's case it was being bought out from AMF and the introduction of the Evo engine that saved Harley from bankruptcy. A not too different situation in my humble opinion with Morgan.

Indeed ... companies have their evolution .... though the AMF years are viewed as Harley's nadir and Willie G bought the company back into family ownership and better days ... who knows what the future holds for Morgan and whether corporate ownership will be seen as a boon or curse from a future perspective.

K

To be fair to Harley ... AMF didn't innovate at all, it just tried to turn a buck by making the existing shovelhead models somewhat more cheaply and poorer quality than before ... it was the buy-out team who started the development of the Evo motor

Very interesting reflections! I have this vague idea that in Morganland there are, well, let's call them "Sentimentalists" and "Rationalists", with probably everyone having a bit of each, but just more or less of one or the other depending on the individual and, perhaps, the topic.

Sentimentalists (which, now I think of it, is probably my own natural inclination, with a soupçon of Walter Mitty thrown in for good measure) are attracted to the emotional/artistic/nostalgic/quirky/evocative nature of the cars, whilst Rationalists are maybe "mechanical/engineering" types who are drawn to the engineering aspects, and the idea that a competent mechanic can actually work on, maybe even improve, a Morgan (here I'm really going out on a limb, since I'm simply not mechanical).

Against this background, I can, for instance see that CX lovers are Rationalists who see the newer models as simply better, mechanically speaking, and can't quite fathom how anyone could prefer a "worse" model, whilst trad lovers think that modernisation "misses the whole point of a Morgan" or something similar: both valid perspectives of course (and I love how, as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, for the vast majority of Morgan owners -- at least on this forum -- both types are united by a common enthusiasm for the marque and mutual respect for the preferences of the other). Perhaps these are two, occasionally competing, views of the world, and this explains why some have strongly held "opinions" that go beyond mere "preferences"?

(Sewin: a special thanks for your very helpful post on the history, it was really enlightening about the practical implications: I can certainly see why developments that affect the economics and practical reality of Morgan ownership can give rise to strongly held opinions!).

For myself the relative collective groups/camps whatever you want to call them may well be established in part by when (in whatever decade), the owner may have made the first commitment to the brand (possibly creating brand loyalty) and purchased a Morgan of what ever era and the stage of evolution //development of that Morgan car itself ,they purchased.Obviously, we can't ignore the relative issues of affordability of each particular purchase for the owner also influencing some of the debate/preferences.

To illustrate.I bought my first Morgan and Harley in the 80's, a CVH 4/4 and an Evo Harley, so all my first experiences, brand expectations and enjoyment were first establish on a trad chassis and a belt drive Harley. Without question that first experience will have in part conditioned my acceptance and expectations of that brand, so much so I kept coming back to the brand.

By way of example in many a post have I extolled the virtues of my CVH Morgan over more modern trads. when in reality considerable improvements in build quality,better materials used introduction of long doors used etc.having increased the longevity of the car in the intervening years. So my bench mark has been set and coloured by those earlier years, when some improvements since such as removing the king pin oiling system, I view (because I hate greasing king pins whilst on longer continental tours) as a retrograde step, when in reality it probably wasn't. Much in the same way I see the CX not requiring king pin lubrication as a positive step, as they say horse for courses and each to their own.

I can understand why people new to the brand may prefer a CX over a trad for all the obvious improvements embedded in the CX over a trad. When I purchased my first Morgan in the 80's I had no choice, all we had were trads. so my choice and acceptance criteria of a Morgan driving experience was restricted by comparison to what is available today. It's also worth noting that Morgan lengthy waiting lists about 10 years back in the 80's and much more limited availability of used cars restricted choice further, Of course there are further considerations such as personal maintenance, tinkering requirements influence choice.

With the introduction of automatics Morgan has for many with increasing mobility issues allowed them to continue to enjoy the brand , where die hards would tut and mutter under their breath not a real Morgan.

Adam your response hints at some sort of division between the owners of various models over the decades, which I have not detected in any meaningful way when in company with other Morganeers, be that on line or in the real world..Though I fully admit that there are ever some folk in all walks of life who seem to witch to create divisions.. Sigh..

As Hamwich suggests at the time of the introduction of a new model there are ever bound to be those with more purist ideals who may seek to find fault in it initially, but I suspect that resistance fades in the passage of time.

As per my chosen forum I.D. hints at, I have known to be resistant to change to some degree though more related to digitisation of the world, however given the method of comms I am currently making use of, I have become a somewhat selective Luddite.. (-:

I admit to disliking the very basic in appearance of the boot lid of the series 1 Aero 8 and it`s squint eyed appearance, when it first appeared on scene, but today such features make it stand out compared to later versions, call it a personal evolution in appreciation if you will... (-: Much the same could be thought of 996 headlights when they were adopted for the first new 911 derivative, compared to the way they may be appreciated by some today...? Shrug.

It is a fact of life that not only construction and use of motor vehicles, and ever evolving regulations perhaps add to the expectations of drivers with the passage of time. I suspect brand loyalists may in time find their fitness levels diminishing, thus longer doors became part of a new design, and considerations for a bit of personal weight gain required a tad more space created in the cockpit to be designed in, higher levels of trim, even auto boxes, power steering air conditioning, more compliant suspension etc.etc.etc.

ME..? I like them all from the V twins right up to date.... However as I have typed many times before... I was in search of a pseudo vintage sports car driving experience, and in a vehicle I could repair myself, ideally one with minimal electronics, carbs and thus no fuel injection, and definitely no digital systems, I had more than enough of that where I worked at the time of purchasing my Morgan.

Of course what works for YOU might be entirely different from my priorities... When I thought a Morgan might suit me circa 1995, I joined the then Morgan Sports Car club forum and typed up a resume of my m/cycliing and sports car background, followed by asking the question ... WHICH MORGAN..might suit me..

Fortunately now some twenty years after purchase I can still get in and out of it reasonably well, can still manage to steer it and make it stop, and seem to have little in the way of issues in stirring the gearbox and of course making it GO... (-: What`s more to want..? (-:

Good luck in your choices..

PS. John, apologies if I repeated anything you typed as I was typing my ramble and did not see it till I posted mine....

Luddite, thank you for your thoughtful reply, and let me hasten to add that while I fully understand your initial comment (indeed, you raise a very good point, one that made me hesitate to ask my question), it is not at all my intention to suggest that the Morgan community is riven with controversy -- to the contrary, it is (at least judging by this wonderful forum and from the lovely Morgan fans I have already had the pleasure of meeting here in Sweden and on an initial Morgan scouting trip to the UK), one of the most harmonious and appreciative enthusiast communities I have had the pleasure to come across, a real treasure. My question is geared more towards a kind of conceptual interest in the origins of the occasional (quite occasional) flaring up of opinion I have seen elsewhere. I admit to having a bit of an abstract tendency (doubtless why I'm such a useless mechanic...), and thus the query. Thanks for raising your good point and thus giving me the opportunity to clarify!

I think I'm one of the lucky souls, owning and driving both a 1990 CVH-4/4 and a 2023 PlusFour. They are both great fun, the 4/4 although having more character. When I'm driving the PlusFour I'm enjoying it and at the same time I long to drive my old 4/4. I'm familiar with its rattles, vibrations and smells, but also the relative ease of using and driving it! My wife and I drove it through many parts of Europe (mainland) and Britain for almost 30 years. But when I have to return to home over the motorway in my 4/4 after a club event 200 Km up north, then I do realize why we bought the PlusFour in 2023. It brings you home in relatively quietness and ease and (almost) dry when raining and warm. We bought the 4/4 just before our fourties, and now we are in the second half of our sixties. Although fortunately being both healthy, age does counts. We bought the PlusFour for longer trips abroad, without bothering about emission zones, And that's were we use it for. The 4/4 was constantly improved by us in nearly 30 years of ownership. But even a new PlusFour had to be improved, the most important having installed the Nitron suspension upgrade, a thing which should have been installed by the factory at launch...! So Morgan stays Morgan, they both make me happy and the PlusFour (manual!!!!) makes it easier to undertake large trips now after retirement! The Morgan society in The Netherlands is relatively small. It doesn't matter if you own or drive a trad 4/4, +4 or +8, an Aero, a CX or a Threewheeler. We are all Morganlovers.

Morgan's are emotive cars and to me you buy what you want and let others buy what they want. I love Marzipan but the rest of my family hate it, now my mum has passed away I don't think I will ever get it on the Christmas cake again unless I make it myself, however I could just buy a chunk and eat it.

What I wanted was before the CX came out so not even thought about. However being in Australia a new Morgan is not an option, the dealer is keeping a list of client who want a CX and if there is enough interest he will apply for a car to be tested against ADR's (Australian Design Rules) which is an expensive process so he needs a long list to make it worthwhile, or charge a lot for each car to cover the costs. To give an idea the test is about $100,000 plus they destroy a car in the process and i am sure there are other expenses, us Australians have been arguing with our government saying if the car is good enough for another RHD market like the UK or Japan then just let the model in without testing it here but I think those in charge feel the general public need to be protected from ourselves because we are just kids who can't be trusted to know what we want. If that happened then Morgans might be available again but for now the market is second hand trads.

The three wheelers don't appeal at all. Sure if it could be registered as a motor bike and parked in motor bike spots it would have some appeal but it is treated as a car, it had a legal reason to exist in the 1920's but not now. I also don't like the look of the Aero and in Australia they are stupidly expensive.

I saw my first Morgan in about 1981, a new Red +8 and thought that is a car I want one day, but after that every time I saw Morgans at car shows they either looked very new or very tatty and the tatty ones didn't appeal. Every time a new model came out it looked nicer to me and was what I wanted, once the long doors came out in 1997 the car looked a lot nicer to me and I didn't want anything earlier.

2018 when the 2019 +110 model was announced was when I seriously thought it is time to jump in. Initially I thought order a new one because firstly I get what I want and secondly it didn't seem much more expensive than one a few years old, but once I got talking to owners it appears a new one can take a lot of fettling to be a good car and a good second hand fettled one was a better option. I tried a couple of older V8's but the newer 4 cylinder seemed sweeter to drive with the +4 the sweet spot, Green with Mulberry red leather and a wooden dash. But I ended up buying a house for my son and pregnant girlfriend to live in, I now have two lovely grand daughters who love their Papa and to me that is better than any car.

However in 2020 I lost a car to a freak storm that wrote off 10% of all the cars in my city so I wanted something special. The car I had was 34 years old when written off and very special but the insurance company wouldn't let me keep it, but if it was 35 years old I could have. Not wanting to go though that experience again I wanted a car over 35 years old but a new Morgan is a new car so I either had to insurance and register it as new or get one made before 1990 and not have a long door.

I went for a Frontline MGB which is registered and insured as a modified 1969 car with salvage rights. It is a similar engine to the +4 Super sports and I got Green with Mulberry red leather. I have been driving it for about 1.5 years now and have had a ball doing 11600km so far. The local MG club is happy to have me as a member and I have been helping organising many of the events, they don't care the car is not 100% MG as they are happy to have someone active in the club and my car looks like a MG to most people. The closest Morgan club is 300km away so a Morgan would not have given me the social aspect the MGB has given me. Frontline Australia have been great to deal with and if I want to fettle I can talk to them about my ideas and they seem to encourage me having fun tinkering with the car, not that I have had to, just had fun doing the odd thing.

I love this forum because of the people in it. I feel as if I know a lot of them from what they have written in posts over the last 5 years. If I was in the UK I would have got a Morgan and enjoyed driving it with other owners and other club events. But I am extremely happy in a MG in the local MG club and having weekly morning teas chatting about everything under the sun just like the Malvern Arms here, regular club trips away and other social events.

So to me while my particular choice would be +110 +4 in Jaguar British Racing green with Mulberry leather and walnut dash it is owning a car that allows you to be sociable in a club that is the most important thing.

For me it is simply the eccentricity of Morgan, the story, the factory and construction, the cars themselves, the community; it is unique and being eccentric myself helps