Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms 2016 ARP4 on auction

Car and Classic, auction closes in an hour or two and currently stands at £29,000. One I would go for if I had the space (and the spare cash).

Now the older generation enthusiast Morgan owners are fading away this particulary noisy model will prove impossible to move on as indeed is being witnessed already so think carefully - buy it for the pure joy not for retention of value or saleability.

I have always thought the dashboard to be much too busy and not attractive in design, appealing to boy racers possibly.

I'll confess to being a minimalist though and like my cars as they came out of the factory without bolt on gizmoes...

Contrast and compare

The Silver auctioned at 40k.

Low numbers, short production run.......... usually spells trouble in Morgan world......🤷🏻‍♂️😂
Although.....to be fair....... large number and long production run often spells trouble in Morgan world as well........😂😂😂

There's a 1700ml Plus four on car and classic for £44k......
It's not too far from £39,995....... which is where they'll be later this year.....🤷🏻‍♂️

Perhaps Rich is right, the older generation of Morgan owner is probably a dying breed....... certainly thinning out a bit, and there certainly doesn't seem to be the numbers of new trad owners coming through looking at the amount of cars for sale....🤷🏻‍♂️

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I don’t believe it reached the reserve, £48,000 is now the asking price post auction.

Now that is interesting, I watched it live and they said now closed at 40k, so the reserve was higher is that it ?

I don't know anything about auctioneering.

P.S. still 10k below the similar Perranwell one so someone got a good deal.

That Plus Four has to be good value.

Julian, are you tempted ?

I think we are also seeing a transition from trads to CX, I was at a noggin the other week and a few of us were gathered around my car with some being trad owners, and they were all for the transition across,to a CX but found that there weren't enough automatic CX at the moment on the used market None of the those, I was chatting to, wanted a manual CX, as most of them had mobility issues usually around the clutch operation

..It could just be a case of like minded people gathering together like bees around a honey pot, but I wasn't surprised, at the direction the discussion took , as they all made the point an automatic will keep them in the brand for much longer.

Your comments endorse my comment on the older brigade being in transition physically, combined with the necessary invention of new young customers more used to electric scooters and manicured nails is the only future for MMC.

So the raw Trads will vanish and hang in the market just like their owners - myself included in (75) there - I won't be selling or transitioning once the manual V8 and 4/4 Sport are not possible that's it for me the end of a wonderful unadulterated experience (thirty something years now) which I have been so lucky in many ways to be able to tap into and still service and repair is all part of (painful) joy of ownership for me.

HFS pure genius.

I’ve always liked the ARP4, the bright painted underwear and the fancy suspenders were an attractive feature, probably quite demanding of attention though when out and about, exciting but highly strung I believe.

Noooooooooooo........!!😂

The prices are certainly becoming appealing, but it's becoming a race to the bottom I think. There will be plenty of choice for the 'older brigade' in the next year or 2.
It looks like Autos might start to command a premium, but the manual version drives really well...!!

MMC desperately need new blood, new owners and customers otherwise there will be the same problem in a few years when all the 'older brigade' shuffle off.

I like a trad....... I like the vintage-ness of them, the history, I like the fact that they're not digital, sanitized, gentrified..........😂

I'm not saying never to a CX, but I think I've reached a period in my life where I have attained......contentment........🤷🏻‍♂️ I'm not sure how it happened, maybe it's an age thing.... perhaps I have 'everything' I want or need...... I'm not sure it'll last, my wife would definitely say it won't...... but let's see....😂

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What's all this talk about ageism going on with regards Morgan ownership. Lets be clear - I wouldn't touch an automatic with a barge pole. To relinquish total control in favour of a few electronic sensors makes no sense to me, on the open road.
A race circuit perhaps with paddle shift, but that's not automatic is it.
This octogenarian has no difficulty getting in and out of the cab or onto his hands and knees to do the servicing or finding the gear stick.

For me the joy is access to open air motoring which has been the cornerstone of my entire driving life to-date, with a nod to the more basic elements of open air motoring I enjoyed in my youth.......eg manual fold down single skin roof, draughty but initimate and cosy interiors, oceans of wood, the snarl of the engine and exhaust bark just behind your ears. Of course tempered by the wind noise, other exhaust fumes one cannot escape roof down, all still quite raw compared to modern convertibles. The CX for me hasn't dulled the sensation, it's added to it..You still get that ,long bonnet, sitting on the axle driving sensation but just more capable and less tiring They are fast enough, twitchy enough in the wet, to focus and concentrate your mind .

The CX has made me appreciate the Morgan brand far more, and for me it's the journey not the destination, I don't want to be fighting with unassisted parking manoeuvres, heavy clutches in stationary traffic or slow moving traffic, frying in the sun, that's no fun, but more an increasing reality on today's roads.

In my experience once Morgan introduced fuel injection and catalytic convertors with all the necessary associated sensory add ons and much added weight, it ceased to be a pure simple sports car, I first fell in love with.

Well the Plus 8 at 900Kgs and the Sport at 800Kgs compare very favourably (injection cats et al) compared to your Germanic Cabrios John.....

So I disagree with you - the 10 year ago Strange Rovers were 3 Tonnes for context, I told my family don't hit these yuppie children carriers take off into a ditch first choice because hitting one of those is not survivable.

P.S. As your first Morgan was possibly all steel do tell me what weight it was John so we can get some facts here as I am interested now...

Mine was an all alloy 1985 CVH 4/4 the Sunday Times competition prize car.so about 750/760 kilo's


Don't just look at power and weight, but also compare ground clearance and weight distribution, mine had massive ground clearance compared to later trads, which made all the difference, when travelling fast (ish) especially over rough country lanes and back roads. Never had to worry about traffic calming ruts etc. anything at all in my CVH or Kent 4/4. The lever arms were a bit bouncy over fast undulations, but the suspension never crashed like the more modern trads. The more difficult bit to quantify the different it felt to drive the lighter front ends felt compared with later trads.

Couldn't agree more with the over weight, German cabriolets. Great big barges but with sportline suspension, they really handled very well and were rock steady at massive speeds, did !35mph roof down in my Mercedes and 165mph and rising in my Porsche turbo roof down, and not the slightest concern........could never do that in a Morgan. Interesting debate.

Surely Morgans are neither convertibles nor cabriolets, they are roadsters.

A convertible (or cabriolet) is a car with a roof than you can take down if you want to. A roadster is an open car with a roof that you can put up if you have to.

Well with my Sport coming in at 800Kgs and on 65 section tyres I never even think about ground clearance. So depending who is sat in the cockpit (not me 105 Kgs) my Sport could be lighter all up..

The Plus 8 I have on 7" x 16" Lightweight factory alloys and 60 sections so no worries there either and down our grass covered centre lined lanes the grass cleans off the excess sump drips too, nominal 4" clearance so more than the long haired Brigadiers Polo GTI special which is happy at 150mph with suspension , steering and brakes to match it really is a joyful little thing even if it is on 35sections...

Interesting about your Teutonic comparisons, so you really were paying a big premium for the extra 40 mph..

That may be splitting hairs, if the soft top frame is usually detached from the chassis, I would consider that more a Roadster. The Mercedes Pagoda had a version that came with no folding roof, just the detachable hard top, no soft-top, I would consider a roadster

The AI definition of a Roadster is as follows

A roadster is an open-top, two-seat automobile with a primary focus on sporty performance and styling. Traditionally, these vehicles are lightweight, often feature rear-wheel drive, and lack permanent weather protection, typically using a removable or foldable soft top.

The new Supersport if supplied with only a hard top, I would consider a roadster. Be interesting to hear other peoples views

John there is a beautiful Supersport in dark blue with matching mohair roof - featured outside MMC on delivery I think, so another fail for AL incorrect information again..

Everyone commented how much nicer it looks without that hunched hardtop look, so guaranteed to be an option soon I would think.

The Mercedes and Porsche were 4 seater or 2 plus 2,came with a boot of sorts and Sue could drive them all, and they could cross continents with absolute ease, entirely different beasts all together, same as the Midgets and TR7 convertibles I've owned over the years, apples and pears to compare, different horses for different courses. If it came to crash protection especially roll over, the Mercedes and Porsche would out perform the Morgan, I've been in a rolled over Mercedes SL of a friend of mine that went down a ditch because of a famer and his stupidity on a blind corner in the middle of the road.....we were totally unscathed, something in even a modern CX would not be a good.situation. So there are different aspects to the added premium such cars afford you.
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My last trad a '12 Plus 4 Sport weighed about 970kg, it was the lightest feel and best performing of the later trads I had, but still not quite the same feel and drive as my '85.

Modern cars can achieve great speeds these days with more efficient smaller engines, compared with what was necessary to achieve the same 20, 30, 40 years ago, but I'm sure it still wont measure up to doing 165mph roof down,completely open to the elements which accentuates the speed sensation. not tucked away in quasi sterile safety of the tin box,

It's like comparing travelling at speed on a naked motorbike where the wind is trying to pull your helmet off and lift your fingers off the bars at even quite modest speeds compared to a fully faired motor bike,there's just no comparison. to the riding experience. There's nowt wrong with tin boxes, I've had a few which could really move, they all have their place in our hearts..

There are some really nicely spec'd Supersports coming out more recently , which I feel do more to flatter the design, unlike some of the launch schemes......I really like them.......need to stop spending money on motorcycles and start saving the pennies.

I understand where you are coming from, I've had automatics for some 40 odd years now, and they have come a long way from the basic 3/4 speed Borg Warner gearboxes of yore. My Aunty in the 60's/70's had Singer, BL cars with the 3 speed auto...and I hated driving them, they were dreadful.

But that's not the case today., as they say each to their own..........

I bought the ARP4 as I always wanted a Morgan, fell in love with this when I tried to buy it 10 years ago at Life’s motors in Southport. I have noted the previous comments and all I have found is it needs a fair few revs to set off, it’s a bit noisy because you need to keep the revs high although it is perfectly acceptable to drive at lower revs with far less torque (and it drones at 70mph so need to slow a little to keep wife happy). Windscreen is now fixed. Matthew who I bought it off was a real gent a pleasure to deal with. Car is fabulous when not stuck in traffic

All that really matters is that you and your wife are enjoying the car.........no Morgan is perfect, they are all a series of compromises in some way.....................just look after the chassis, deal with any defects, stone chips, cracks in the chassis protective treatment.

Welcome to TM Rastus and congratulations on your ARP4. After 10 years I have only just sold my ARP4, there was no other Morgan in the range which I fancied until the face lift version of the Plus Four came along and even then I was only tempted by a very low milage car to the exact spec which I would have chosen.

The ARP4 was not for everybody and its popularity was not helped by various know alls commenting on something they had probably never driven, (sorry Richard and John). As you will have found out it is very civilised around town and at low revs, it's just that it has power in abundance between 4500 - 7500 when the red light comes on. If you like that sort of engine then it's fun, if not, then it is a pia. But don't forget it had great rear suspension, rear disc brakes adjustable shock absorbers all round, as well as lesser things like double lined hood, and a few cosmetic tweaks as standard and, if I remember rightly, it was only £10,000 more than a standard Plus 4 at the time. The engine alone was worth that, so the rest of the bits and pieces came for free. (Man maths wins again!)

It may be a marmite model, but if you like marmite it certainly hits the spot. Even the parking brake could be made to hold by using the footbrake first technique.

Do let us know how you get on with it over the months.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly