Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Monty Takes A Deep Breath

Fair enough, I missed the word 'legally'. The trouble is that under the S.165 Road Traffic Act, if the car was ever stopped and found to be illegally modified, there's the possibility of immediate seizure as the insurance would be invalidated? (Unless the insurance company was happy to still provide cover with an illegally modified car, which I find difficult to believe).

It's the old adage, "Don't break the law when you're breaking the law". Driving around with no Cat is extraordinarily unlikely to attract any attention, but driving around with a straight-through silencer is exactly the kind of thing that does.

Under Section 59 of the Police Reform Act 2002, officers can seize vehicles driven in a way that causes "alarm, distress or annoyance" (such as excessive exhaust noise or reckless driving). I'm sure Montegue would never drive recklessly on public roads, but the noise alone might be a concern?

I'm sure Monty is capable of making his own decisions, but for a car used regularly on the road, sacrificing a few bhp to remain legal would be my preference.

Very true, but responsible people wouldn't use the Travelling Community as a bench mark for acceptable behaviour, but hey ho that's just my opinion for what its worth.. I just lost interest in this exercise when the empthasis is just on BHP for a car used on the road, where once over the speed limit, top speed becomes academic, whereas acceleration and driveability ie torque IMHO is more important. And to be honest, i'd have bought a Roadster by now and transferred the front suspension over and made a really great car, which had more than enough power but could be expanded further if felt necessary.

But as they say each to their own.

Careful as well what you post online!

I used to be a Mod / Admin on a very popular Land Rover site with over 100,000 members. As with all sites there were the obvious fallings out and disputes.

One member who'd wound up a few people previous (no, not me this time) posted a few images of some dodgy offroading that he'd done. Someone from the forum downloaded the images, sent them to the old bill who then paid him a visit. Can't remember the outcome, but there was a threat of seizure/fines etc.....

Having been on Morgan forums for for a few decades, I do wonder at the processes of evolution so associated... When I first asked the question "Which Morgan" on the then fledgling MSCC DG, at a time when it seemed the majority of folk were of the hands-on variety, and rather keen to improve on the performance of their Morgans in a variety of ways, and as best I can remember there was not much if any advice relative to legal guidelines quoted in those days when it seems legislation the LAW was perhaps looked upon as for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of ...err...fools... or have I got that entirely wrong...?

Much has changed since we followed our American cousins thinking on the adoption and uses of litigious processes in all areas of society, however unlike us it seems they may enjoy a tad more freedom in terms of that which they may be allowed to enjoy driving on the road...? Whereas it seems ever increasing regulation in our part of the world has made things more difficult for the hands-on brigade and increasingly so with the passage of time and ever more regulation.

That there still exists young folk who represent what to me seems like revisiting ideals of past hands-on Morganeers, or indeed the origins of those of us who as our younger selves, were ever into making it louder if not faster, and at a time where one`s personal safety,or following the law to the letter, was perhaps not top of our priorities, especially if operating on a very limited budget...?

Ever known a policeman to have a seemingly noisy exhaust on his fun car, or indeed lord of the realm driving like a nutter in his Bentely or whatever.... I wonder...?

For sure a gentle hint as to the risks involved when someone`s modifications may expose them to possible dangers..But..?

I well remember dear old Button`s attempts of modifying his Morgan with some off the wall ideas.... Who ever heard of an electric handbrake.... (-:

All of which causes me to question, how far to go when we arrive at quoting chapter and verse on aspects of the law.... Hmm..?

Just read this interesting article reflecting the above observation

Police seized five Lamborghinis and a Mercedes G-Wagon after stopping a fleet of supercars using a motorway as a racetrack.

Officers from Greater Manchester Police (GMP) were alerted to reports of dangerous driving on the M66 on Wednesday evening.

The force’s Roads Policing Unit (RPU) was made aware that a group of individuals were driving dangerously at speed, weaving across lanes, wheel-spinning and slowing down to speeds of around 17mph on the motorway.

The supercars had been spotted performing wheel spins on the M66 - Greater Manchester Police Officers from the newly formed Transport Policing and Crime Command team located the convoy of vehicles on the M62, and were able to stop two of the Lamborghinis as they came off the motorway.

RPU officers then used specialist tactics to bring the remaining vehicles to a stop in Rochdale.

GMP said: “As a result of our intervention, we seized five Lamborghinis and a Mercedes G-Wagon under Section 59 of the Police Reform Act 2002. In addition to this, the drivers of the offending vehicles were prosecuted for a number of driving offences.”

Specialist tactics were used to stop some vehicles in Rochdale - Greater Manchester Police Chief Insp Danny Kabal from GMP’s Transport Policing and Crime Command said: “We take road safety very seriously in GMP, and we will not tolerate careless, inconsiderate, anti-social or dangerous driving on our roads.

“Recent changes to Section 59 of the Police Reform Act now enable us to seize vehicles without having to issue a warning first. As we intensify our road safety operations and enforcement campaigns, we will use this legislative change as part of our daily business.

“People who think it is acceptable to use our roads as a racetrack need to pay attention to this result and take it as a warning – they will have their vehicles seized and they will be prosecuted.

“I would like to thank the members of the public who reported this matter to us and apologise to them for any inconvenience caused when we temporarily shut the road to deal with the offenders.”

Times are achanging................

There was a quite lenghty post on an advertised Morgan Plus 8 on those very issues, so there seems to be a consistent theme here, which is what you would hopefully expect with a forum of responsible individuals........................also some people may not be aware of the legal implications of what they are doing, therefore a fully informed debate is facilitated.

Ah! Dave I presume the pic showing the 145 cat was your original supplied new with car. Our cars were registered within a year of each other, yours newer than mine and it gets taken for a walk much more regularly so don't let my Muttley know. It's the same as mine yet in the Morgan spares for our cars that is not the listed cat which is smaller and has the conical ends. Haven't got any answers to why this is, Morgan thought I was mad when I asked and no one else seems to recognise it. However all I can say is I have never had the co issues at MOT time that so many owners have and in fact it's always something that is remarked on in that my exhaust gasses are spot on, text book in fact. So if anyone, yes anyone out there knows anything about these cats and what they are, and if original fitment I'd love to know and I'm sure others would too!

Here we go Martin




As you can see its a Ford part, the laser engraving reads.

Ford
4S71 - 5E212 - EA
1426166
T2A 1A
24K073

The part numbers confirm the cat is from a Mk3 Mondeo 2.0 Duratec, Ford quoted this model as making 145hp. The Ford cat's estimated internal envelope is around 76% greater in frontal area than my small sports cat, it also has 15% more volume so it is looking highly likey the sports cat is too small to support the kind of power levels Monty's engine has been built to deliver.

The Ford cat chosen by Morgan is actually a quality thing with a proper ceramic core, it's way better than the silly little so called sports cat with its cheaper metal core. I did originally specify it, but I now think that was a mistake, for starters it was really too small to support much over 180hp.

Once the de-cat has proved itself, I'll have Matt at Fusion Fabrication make me a new cat pipe for MoT time, and using the 15% larger Ford cat with its 76% greater frontal area!

I also note Monty's old sports cat dimentions very closely follow this model from HJS, they rate this sized cat at a maximum of 180hp, strong evidence Monty's sports cat was always undersized!



What we should have fitted is this larger one, that HJS rate up to 240hp.



Monty now has no cat, and a 2.5" straight though 'shorty' side pipe exhaust setup that'll easily support 280hp plus, so as far as I'm concerned that should completely eliminate any exhaust restriction concerns. If Monty's power still fails to climb over 5,500rpm with the new de-cat side pipe setup, we'll need to have a massive rethink and start looking at fitting the ITBs I've been trying so hard to avoid.

Personally, I don't think it'll come to that!