Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) radiator fan

Good evening from germany.
My radiator fan is out of order. The electric motor was very hot and the fan blades are melted in the middle. I think that these parts are installed also in other everyday vehicles. Does anyone know which cars these fans were installed in?

We need to know which car you own to help you.

1997 +8 3.9 maybe?

Spal Fan used on my 1999 Plus 8 Spal Supplier in Germany

Yes, with 140Kw

SPAL fans are the most popular aftermarket fans in the world. SPAL is now an Italian company with local sellers in every major nation. https://www.spal.com/en/spal-uk

Odd. I did not think the MMC adopted SPALS that early. But Bill Beck had been investigating better cooling solutions SPAL was great when Bill Beck chose them and they are even better now. Special slimmer ones allowing for more wiggle room and a more upright rad angle (very important). (I use a 12" (305mm) with more than 2300 cfm but my LR engine is likely larger AND I don't think that CFM is available any more.) A 13" is often possible but to reduce hassles greatly, this choice should be a function of the existing SPAL rad brackets you have. You did not mention the part number you have.

Some history, the Factory production department had a problem with them at the outset. Rather than taking SPAL's and Beck's advice, they installed them without the required special separate wiring kit..merely putting in a 30 amp fuse in a fusebox and wiring rated for less. I do not know whether this is the case with yours so I am including a picture of the correct SPAL wiring kit of the day below. As this production department wiring and fusebox couldn't support the power, the MMC system would melt them. And such things get worse with usage. The fan just stops. Been in slow traffic lately? Some cars and this could lead to head gasket. I wrote an article on the subject in 2000. I had been using SPAL for years by then https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/TANKS.html#Cooling However, I bought from a SPAL specialist.

I am puzzled that the fuse did not blow first unless internal damage permanently fused that position in the fusebox. Imagine, the short reached the fan itself!!!

The most prudent game plan would be to 1. check what relay your Plus 8 has and 2. whether it still functions, then 3. the fan fuse and what its amperage is , 4. the fusebox integrity and 5. then take your engine compression.

L
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RIri,

The German Supplier of your Spal Fan as fitted to your car in direct reply to your question.

Unfortunately Richard your link above gives 27 options. The model ID invitation doesn't offer Morgan as a brand option.

I thought the OP would be capable of removing his and measuring the old unit, or maybe taking it to them even for a like for like.

They are THE SPAL agents in West Germany so should be more than capable of finding and supplying the absolute correct unit

It's not rocket science is it

I'm happy taking a horse to water sans the history lesson or drinking the water for it

Point taken , although your post implied to me the link was to the specific one your car has.

Thanks everyone; I like the engineering-style approach.
I’m going to take measurements of the old fan.
It turns out the 30A fuse has indeed blown as well. That fuse sits by itself in the front engine bay. The power cables leading to the fan are also scorched.
Yes, it happened during a slow-speed section of a rally.
We shut the Morgan off and waited for it to cool down. I lost the rally.

To finish in first place ...first you must finish

Hope you get the new fan sorted Riri

Yes it´s a 12" fan.

From your image above and having 12 inch (305mm) blades with assumption the fan sucks cool air through the rad it looks like this one drawing 12.4 amps would fit from the current Spal range. Please check these dimensions though and accept that the later design, having blade protection and mounting on the periphery, may require you to re-engineer mounts.

Yes true, but he is a brave chap rallying his Plus 8 hey

Hi again riri,

It is as expected..and happily only melted/fused solid from the fuse and relay to the fan. They protected the fusebox and wiring from it. Sad nonetheless. I use a 40amp fuse with a SPAL 40 amp relay and along with their wiring. Your fusebox fuse merely covers the relay "trigger" for the SPAL relay. I can't figure why the fuse/relay didn't blow rather than fusing and melting the fan! We shall be more prudent with what you buy now. Stick with SPAL ancillaries rather than another setup. I have never had a SPAL system give me a problem on any Plus 8.

I gather you have not checked the engine compression yet. That can be done without starting the engine. It is your biggest worry. Unlikely, but it must be checked. You can do that yourself...even with an inexpensive pressure tester. https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan21.html#ENGINE. BTW, was the rear of the radiator core damaged from the heat?

And yes, engineering and experience should always set your priorities.

1[b]. the new fan should, ideally, fit the brackets you have.

2. have a depth or a smaller one that fits the space you have. You can use tape measure with the rad in the car or measure the depth of the fan once removed.

3. produce the most CFM (cubic feet of airflow) (aka M3/hours) you can find. I have picked a coup,e of possibilities out. The example posted is rather low cfm, IMHO. For example, my 12 inch SPALs pull well over 2300 cfm. Determine the part # of the melted one in the car. Then you can choose with wisdom and availability near you. I always take issues as an opportunity to improve Morgans.

Lorne

Hope you have sorted out your fan selection and fitting riri.. Whatever fan you have decided to use, perhaps best to check the manufacturers advice on the selection of an appropriate fuse.
I note that Richard advised that the fan in his post runs at 12.4 amps and if that fan might be selected a 30 amp fuse would perhaps risk creating a similar situation to the failure of fan and wiring you have already experienced..!

As gomog suggested it seems likely that the relay seems likely to have carried more current (amps) than it was designed to and may have damaged it`s internal contacts, thus a replacement relay suited to the replacement fan`s current and a modern relay with internal diode protection can help protect the relay`s internal switch contacts from burning in time.. using a relay that can carry more current than the fan requires is unlikely to cause a problem, thus a 30 amp relay should be fine, though once again the fan manufacturers advice is best followed..

Also perhaps worth thinking about is the possibility of wiring up a fan over-ride switch, which can be used to over-ride the radiator mounted temperature (otter) switch that switches the fan`s relay on and off..

The over-ride switch can act as a back up should the otter switch fail.

Hope you get it sorted out and avoided any engine damage riri.

Good post Luddite! The internet had had the same experience as I. For example,.https://forums.jag-lovers.com/t/fuse-rating-exceeding-manufacturers-specification/374193 Of course this is for the High-Output SPAL Fan (and SPAL) owners have found best. The smaller SPAL fans, mid-strength, can use 30amps and even, perhaps, less potent wires and relay: BTW, I have learned to use the lowest amperage I can in any task. If you're leery, merely try a lower amperage fuse while carrying a spare and also a more potent fuse as a precaution. In this way I went from 20s to 40s. .

Key point in your case is the strength of the relay as well. The standard SPAL fan relay is 40 amps as is the HELLA relay posted earlier. The HELLA (a very fine relay from Spain) is considerably less expensive as it can be purchased separately. However, the SPAL fan relays are sold as part of a complete kit with fuse holders and potent wiring which is safer decision for amateurs. BTW, I avoided a long length of odd heavy duty wiring by simply connecting the POWER into the relay from the nearby alternator. The relays "trigger" (my terminology), which is an earth to the.rad fan switch at the bottom of rad and/or a bypass at the dash...though in your case the last can be a toggle switch anywhere you can reach from your spot at the steering wheel.

Lorne

ADDENDUM: I had a later thought a researched it. I was thinking how I liked the HELLA design combining the fuse and the relay together in a compact whole. Then that concerned me. Research confirmed that the posted model has them melt together. If riri has one like it could explain what happened to him. Google it. "can a HELLA relay & fuse combination melt" It should not be used. Pity.