Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Monty Takes A Deep Breath

I accept that it's probably heresy to even have thoughts about getting rid of the sliding pillar set up...........😂
I remembered that a replacement existed, I think Simon (sifab) was making one as well at one point........
I presume it was wildly expensive to make and fit hence why it never took off.....🤷🏻‍♂️

I can manage to grease mine, it's not too much of a problem but......... there is always the thought...... is there something better......????????

I know it doesn't do away with greasing but I think I'm going to bite the bullet and go with the SSL set up when my king pins are replaced, probably over this winter.

🇬🇧🇬🇧

Thanks Dave, Always wondered why I had a different cat! Even asked BHM and they didn't have a clue other than it's not the correct cat. Even started to have black thoughts that the car had been accident damaged and someone had grafted that cat in. As I'd said previously, the only good I could see at that time was no problems come MOT time and in all fairness it seemed to fit well enough!

Didn't Peter Mulberry develope a suspension system?
I seem to remember he used his car as a test mule for a full independant set-up.
I saw his car after he sold it.
Not " a wildley expensive " upgrade but not cheap.
Nitron upgrade for thd CX cars level of cost I think.

Spot on Paul

I've owned many more powerful cars, lots of them, the point in tuning Monty is about making the car my own. It's also a personal challenge, my distraction and an expression of mechanical creativity.

Growing up around classic cars, and later on finding myself earning a meager living in that world, I was fortunate enough to experience some true greats that made a real impact on me. Two cars stand out in my memory as offering a truly exceptional driving experience were a 1932 Bugatti Type 55 Roadster and a 1959 AC Ace-Bristol in that order, oh and an Elan Series 4 Special Equipment ticks the box too.

All three gave approximately 155 bhp per ton, a figure that very closely matches the power to weight ratio of a standard Duratec Plus 4. With the roof down and the side screens off, Monty is the closest I can get within my budget that brings me near to the driving experience of the wonderful Bug, AC and Lotus.

Of course I then just wanted a tiny little bit more shove, and here we are, as it turns out the current 193hp and broad delivery of 175 lbs/ft Monty delivers is actually somewhat of a sweet spot, so I should probably stop where I am. However, the ported big valve head and Phase 3 cams do offer genuine 230hp potential, so it seems wrong not to unlock it.

Maybe I just need to move on from the long runner inlet as there's no question a set of Jenvey Heritage throttle bodies will fix it, they'd certainly look and sound the part too

https://youtube.com/shorts/6KNRsRD25Js?si=f0ZIjYX5yMeFfpUZ

One guy who I do know will get to the bottom of it is Dale Bladen up in Telford, he's a very clever old school problem solver who doesn't use guess work. Dale uses his dyno and decades of tuning experience to solve problems, rather than spending his customer's money unessesarily in the hope he'll stumble on a fix.

So at this point, I think it wise to engage another brain, we're already discussing the way forward...




Hi Dale,

To answer your question, M2R Motorsport fitted the head & cams and I mapped it on the road, I'm running an EMU Black that does everything it should.

It all works as expected upto 5,500rpm, then stays at flat around 180hp and refuses to climb, what's confusing me is the inlet shows atmospheric pressure all the way out to 8,000rpm at WOT, surely that eliminates a restriction on the inlet side?

So I figured it was an exhaust restriction, I ripped the cat out and it now has a 2.5" straighthrough sidepipe setup with a good 4-2-1 equal length 42mm id primaries manifold, by the look of the trims on the VE it did make a little bit more, but likely still only around the 190hp mark?

With this exhaust, the whole ported big valve head and Newman Phase 3 cam setup should keep breathing freely all the way out to 8k, and make at least 220hp, so for some reason we're missing at least 20% at peak???

TBH it's not making sense to me anymore and I'm running out of ideas, maybe a cam timing session on the dyno would help, but it seems unlikely we'll find all the missing 40hp at peak just from changing the valve events?

I was thinking you could put it on your dyno and apply your brain to the problem?

Dave.

For context, it's probably worth pointing out that in all the important 'road usable' power aspects, Monty's Duratec is already streets ahead of the Duratec in Caterham's range topping 420R. Ignoring the very top end for a minute, if you look at the power being made at 5,500rpm you'll see Monty is making a mighty 30 horsepower more than the Caterham at this point. Furthermore, if we look at the mid range punch, even more impressively Monty is also making 21 lb/ft more torque than Caterham's top of the line 420R!!!

The A.L. Developments ported head, +1mm valves, and Newman PH3 cams are all clearly doing their thing, as we're already producing substantially better cylinder filling in the midrange and up to 5,500rpm than Caterham's 420R. Indeed, up to 5,500rpm I'd actually change nothing about Monty, so all we're really chasing now is a climbing power line from 5,500rpm to 8,000rpm, which should culminate in an 18% higher peak horsepower number that is largely only usefull for bragging about in the pub.

This is because driving on the road typically takes place from idle to 5,500rpm, keeping the engine spinning between 3,500rpm - 5,500rpm while riding the torque is the real way to make rapid cross country progress on the fun roads. Running Monty's Duratec from 5,500rpm out to 8,000rpm is really only track driving territory.

However, it's not all bad news at the top end, far from it, as it's here's where we find we've also given Monty a whole new engine. Rather than completly falling over at 5,500pm, on the new head and Phase 3 cams Monty dogedly refuses to give up as he holds onto his peak horsepower number produced at 5,500rpm, and all the way out to a heady 8,000rpm! No it's not a rising line, but boy it feels strong, and theres absolutely no question having that 21 lbs/ft and 30hp advantage over a Caterham 420R spec Duratec up to 5,500rpm makes for a very rapid road driven Trad chassis Morgan indeed.

What Monty will feel like when I do eventually find the missing top end power, I can only imagine? However, to be completely honest I'm in no particular rush to unlock it, because Monty is already rapid enough, and if I'm completely honest with myself those last 2,000 rpms are really only reserved for track day use anyway.

Thanks for listening, and following Monty's evolution chaps, I hope you're all enjoying the journey as much as I am?



Dave.

Very inspiring Dave and nicely summed up.

Go for it Julian. I think you can achieve good results with either the regular or the SSL but the SSL can be nicely optimised once its fitted.

But I do think we hit a ceiling with both the front and rear suspension. There’s certainly a lot of refinement that is definitely well worth doing. But once you get to that sweet spot and everything is working as it should you still have a car that is inherently bouncy and unpredictable, on regular roads. Not a criticism, just an observation.

It would appear that we have a fifth undamped spring in the system that prevents the suspension from being properly tuned. I would hazard a guess that this is mostly down to the stiffness of the short weak length of chassis across the door aperture. Just poke your finger in the gap at the top front of the door when driving to get a feel of actually how much body movement is happening.



Wouldn’t it be interesting to see what happens if this section was stiffened up

PS – Sorry for the thread drift Dave