Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Daylight Running Lights

Hi All
I have an Australian delivered 2019 plus4 without DRL’S. Has any one followed the wiring harness and determined if the wiring is in place for DRL’S ( as there is quite a few unused plugs on the standard harness ) or do I have to start from scratch.
Hope you can help.

According to the wiring schematic there are no dedicated DRL cables in the loom. There is cabling for the optional front foglights (blue/yellow) and wing top sidelights (red/orange and red/black) though which would explain the cable tails you have found.

To fit DRL's you would need to provide a fused ignition switch feed and have that provide power to same via a diode relay controlled by headlights such that DRL's extinguish or dim when latter are on. It depends on the legislation for such in your country.

In the UK at least the later cars are wired so the parking / sidelights front and rear come on with the ignition.
On my previous 2006 Roadster I had the dealer change the wiring to do that.

As John V6 has said all UK cars have the sidelights come on with the ignition that is all that is required on models that were in production before 2011 as that counts as DLR. Why not just fit some LED bulbs in the the sidelights.


European Union Directive 2008/89/EC required all passenger cars and small delivery vans first type[clarification needed] approved on or after 7 February 2011 in the EU to come equipped with daytime running lights.[14][15][16] European Union Directive 2008/89/EC ended validity on 31 October 2014, implicitly repealed by the replacement Regulation (EC) No 661/2009.[17][18] The mandate was extended to trucks and buses in August 2012.[19] Functional piggybacking,[colloquialism] such as operating the headlamps or front turn signals or fog lamps as DRLs, is not permitted;[20] the EU Directive requires functionally specific daytime running lamps compliant with ECE Regulation 87 and mounted to the vehicle in accordance with ECE Regulation 48.[21] DRLs compliant with R87 emit white light on an axis of between 400 and 1,200 candela with an apparent surface of 25 cm2 to 200 cm2 with an additional requirement of between 1 and 1,200 candela in a defined field.[22]

Only on the 3.7 Roadster's I believe John, in the UK at least, possibly CX series as well.

Richard, certainly Hawkis Plus 4 doesn't have the lights on automatically and it is newer than Belle.

Not sure about the CX. You would hope by now they have DLRs

Thank you all for your comments.Looks like I do a full from scratch wiring job or just use one of the existing ignition switched connectors near the horn and not worry about headlight dimming as we only have to do a roadworthy at change of owners here.
Thanks again
Colin

Welcome to TM Colin.

I tapped off the permanent wiper live feed. There appears to be enough capacity to run a couple of super bright 800 Lumen led jobbies as I haven’t popped a fuse so far after 18 months.



Have fun and enjoy your car

Rog, looks very smart. I notice you are using the indicator lights, where do you keep your indicators?

I see from Keith’s post above that it’s called “functional piggybacking”.... The indicators and DRL’s share the same lamp. The bulbs used have some clever integrated electronics to enable the DLR's to remain always on until the indicators are activated and then the bulb changes to flashing orange. When the indicator is cancelled the DRL slowly phases back to white. They are also deactivated when the main lights are switched on as they are too bright for night use.

Don't forget Rog 85 is EARTH.

They sound perfect Roger where did you get them from and did they require much additional wiring.
Colin

Well that is very clever and very neat to look at.

Hi Colin and welcome to TM,

I used the same method as Roger and they work perfectly, I needed to buy two replacement light fittings which will take a double filament bulb, two switchback bulbs white/amber and in my case 2 resistors. I also fitted a relay (with a diode)

I did have a concern that when I switched the main lights on the speedo would jump to 40mph and then drop back, however when I asked BHM about this I was told that it isn't a problem and often happens. So no worries there then.

The cost of the parts came to less than £100 all in, so not too expensive a mod and very smart, and a safety feature as you get bright drl's.


All the credit must go to Roger

Hi Colin,

Try this link
https://www.autoelectricalspares.co...ete-clear-replaces-lucas-l691-2805-p.asp



Rob.

There are other and simpler options for configuring DRL’s on a Morgan, just search the forum. I went down this road as I don’t have wing lights and I preferred to keep the classic headlight look. However the wiring is not that complicated but as always do take care if you decide to modify your new car! You will need some new L691 (double) lamp bases, white lens as original style (that accepts the reflectors), some switchback bulbs, a relay and some resistors to stop the leds flashing too fast. The DRL’s are powered from the wiper feed via a relay. I used a tap from the parking lights at the back of the headlights to power the relay to switch the DRL’s off at night. Here’s the original thread.

And if you need any help with relays, Rob’s your man…..

Thanks Roger I will follow that through
Colin

Thank you everybody I have just ordered replacement light fittings, switchback bulbs and 5 pin relay with diode hopefully I will have it all before the end of October. ( Australia post is extremely slow at the moment it takes 6 days to get a delivery from Melvin Rutter in UK but 18 days from the other side of Melbourne.) I will let you know how it turns out. Hopefully we will be out of lockdown and I will finally be able to take the Morgan for its first decent drive, yes the car arrived after lockdown so has been sitting in the garage for ten weeks so far.
Thanks all
Colin

10 weeks in the garage! Wow that must be absolutely agonizing. So sorry to watch the crazy stuff unfolding in Melbourne at the moment. Our media dosen't report on it but hope you get back to normality soon.

Good luck with the conversion

2006 Plus 4

I converted my wing mounted torpedo lights to DRLs.

I used the following:

Replaced my wing mounted Lucas 1130 torpedo internal bulb holders from 9mm to 15mm using this.
https://www.instekm.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=296827## I got them from Holdens but they dont seem to be listing them now
I had to secure an earth wire to each holder chassis to connect single filament positive and new earth wire to new DRL controller

Replaced Bulbs for these
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/pr...ulbs?_pos=4&_sid=8b5743015&_ss=r
supply

Fitted this controller into car Radio Circuit output side of fuse box and ran new positive and earth wires to each wing light.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402805948549

The DRLs light up at position 1 of ignition key.

The controller does the following.
If Engine not running switches DRLs off after 15 secs..
When on Headlight dipped beam halves the voltage so DRLs dim. To be MOT compliant

All works a treat.

Passed MOT with flying colours (DRLs) yesterday.

Result !!

Sounds good. Having just driven along the M4 in fog, it was alarming to note the number of drivers with DLR lights on, and presumably dash lit up, blissfully unaware that they had no rear lights lit- not the first time Ive seen this- the hazards of automation?

Quite normal for commuters who are not "Drivers"

Treesurveyor.
When my DRLs are on (which is all the time when ignition on) because the DRL power is taken from the 10 amp Radio feed side of fuse box
my Dash Lights are NOT on. So no issues of false sense of security in fog. Dash lights only come on when lights are selected using light switch stalk.

I considered the dual colour LED option as replacements for front indicators to allow the white DRL effect when indicators not selected. Two issues though. I couldn't find LED units that work with flasher without resorting to load resistors (presently using CANBUS friendly amber LEDs). Secondly I couldn't find other than the OE (for my Roadster) single feed deeper L794 bases which come with an integral reflector. I don't want to give these up by using the readily available shallower L691 dual bases.

Would appreciate any help with either of these issues.

Yes, I imagine with retrofit that would be the case, particularly with power from the radio fuse. And you're a Morgan owner and therefore a real driver. I've not owned a car modern enough for OEM DLRs, and merely observed others. I make the point of dash being lit because i am generous enough to presume that whilst driving in fog, everyone would note, no dash lights ergo no headlights? I did remark to a driver who pulled into the same petrol station, and they said they had no idea their rear lights were not lit when their dash was lit, although knowing they hadnt put their lights on. Presumably they dont know about fog? I recall the old TV advertising, around the same time as clunk click and green cross code; but these days a buzzer tells you to belt up, and most cars have auto rain sensors for wipers and auto ark sensors for lights, so there's not much call for proper driving I guess! I dont suppose it'll matter soon, with driverless cars on the way for all....
I have replaced all bulbs lit whilst ignition off/lights left on, with LED units, so Im happy to switch side lights on all the time whilst driving, happy in the knowledge that if I do forget to switch off, at least the battery wont drain in an hour!
As befits only a Morgan, my dash lights are on a rather poor quality dimmer switch beneath the facia, and can be off or on, with or without running lights!

We have an auto light mode on our 2016 Mini. This does not control front or rear individually selectable fog lights with their own in-speedo indications, only side/headlights. I would put the case that drivers should not be reliant on current automatic aids in foggy conditions

With Morgan's it should be borne in mind that the 3.7 Roadsters and possibly CX series do have the front and rear position/side lights on with ignition leaving the daytime dash display on full brighthess in the case of the Roadsters. With the sidelights operated by switch all that changes is dash dimming to whatever last set to. Dash lighting clearly has no relevance to fog, headlight or DRL additions therefore.

Richard,
I think MMC dodged the DLR regs by whatis in effect a bodge. But it does have the positive of the rear lights being on.
Cars with DLR do tend in my experience delay putting on the lights and thus aren't as visible in poor lighting such as mist & sunset.

I agree, John. I have switched the DLR to the sidelights so that the taillights are always on. Some cars have such bright DLR that they forget to turn on the driving lights (if they are not automatically turned on when darkening) and from behind they are harder to see during the twilight time.

Late as usual Richard but would these dual colour CANBUS bulbs work for you if you didn’t want to use resistors?

Unless I misunderstand I’m not sure that the L691 base is any shallower than the L794? As far as I can see they are the same. I just transferred my original L794 reflectors and L794 lens (white) into the new L691 dual bases.

Thanks for reply Rog. Yes those LED's do look as though they would do the job. High price and location in USA puts me off though.

Thanks for pointing out but agree I could simply use the twin contact L691 base and add the deeper L794 clear lens with reflector and longer screws which I already have.

I will probably bide my time until something similar to those on your link become available in the UK. May give Duncan at Classic Car LED's a call although he didn't list any CANBUS dual colour when last checked.

The extra feed to white position light I would probably take from the existing unused wing light feed each side.

In an effort to get this thread to drift.

I pondered if it might be possible to convert wingtop lights to function as indicators and whether that would be legal? This would free up the space under the headlights for a set of mini driving lights, mounted where the indicators now sit. Surely someone on the forum has tried this or similar?

One issue Kevin would be finding a suitable LED bulb. It would likely have to be LED as the bulb itself would have to be amber to work with the clear lens of your wing top lamps and match the existing bulb holder. Another issue would be providing an adequate load to the flasher unit which would probably require external load resistors. There are CANBUS/no hyperflash LED's available but most seem to be for the BA15s base bulbs.

Would you be averse to using the dual colour switchback LED's in the existing indicator position? This would allow a constant bright white light fed by sidelight circuit interrupted when indicator selected to flashing amber as discussed above.

Since my last post I have discovered CANBUS friendly switchback LED's here at reasonable price. These have the advantage of flashing amber and off during indicator sequence as a bright amber/white flash is less easily interpreted. They come with BAY15d base (same as stop/tail bulbs) so would require a pair of new bases to accommodate. Again have found these here. Have ordered both and intend to swap lens to the deeper clear L794 type I already have which allows for integral reflector.

Very useful Richard, not quite as simple as I might have imagined. I\ll take a look at your suggestions and probably keep thinking about it, as I do. One of the trigger points was the removal of a faulty front indicator to inspect it, I found it full of water and the bulb mount rusted away all of which was fixed under warranty by B&C at the time. This unit with it'a tubular rubber mount just seems a bit naff to me, the paint is bubbling underneath and I have been thinking about a replacement unit/system etc. and mostly idle thoughts at that.

Using the reflectors makes a big difference Richard

Maybe just worth mentioning…. Should anybody choose to use separate load resistors just be careful how they are mounted. If you can attach them to some substantial metal to dump the heat. They need to dissipate around 20W so whilst not an issue for the normal indicator duty cycle however if the hazards were left on for an extended period they would otherwise get VERY hot.

50W resistor mounted to the inner cowl next to the indicator

Thanks for photo's Roger. My no hyperflash switchback LED's arrived today.



27 SMD for amber and 15 for white. Tested them on a car battery and amber is so bright it temporarily blinded me. White much less though so plan to wire directly to sidelight feed with no relay. Hoping they will just appear as very white sidelights and given their low mounting position won't upset oncoming traffic at nightime much as my LED headlamps in sidelight mode (one watt).

Had a brief look under wings and have identified the two way Econoseal connectors presently feeding indicators each side. I have left over from a previous job enough parts to make up two three way connectors of same brand. If I can extract the pins from existing loom feed and add a third (sidelight feed) I could end up with a very neat configuration. Inserting/removing pins is a fiddly job though so hope this is not overambitious

That’s looking like quite an elegant solution.....
I hope they haven’t gone Dinitrol crazy like they have on my car....

It adds and extra layer of strength and reduces chassis flex

Front sidelamp conversion to accommodate switchback LED's nearly complete. Only tested inside garage finding the white sidelamp mode bright but flashing amber is something else. They work fine without external resistors as promised. After indication sequence the LED's return to constant white within a second assuming sidelamps are on, which they are permanently when running on my Roadster.



Swap over to matching three way connectors easy once I'd completed the fiddly job of removing the pins from OE socket. Third feed taken as expected from redundant winglight bullet connectors once I'd identified which with voltmeter, as all cables covered in black underseal

🤷🏼‍♂️ So when is a DRL NOT a DRL? Why - when it’s a “DLR” of course😀🥴!

Hi all have just finished converting my front indicators to DRL/indicators using switch back globes and a 5 pin solenoid connected to the head light to turn off and as I don’t have heated seats just replaced the existing fuse with a 5amp and took my supply direct from there. All workers fine except resistors do not stop hyper flash, tried two different types with no success. Have just ordered non hyper flash leds so hope this works. Assuming must be something in the electronics or body control module as have not had the problem in the past.
Regards
Colin

I have just been able to get into Talkmorgan after many months trying. The reason is the site will not work with VPN on.
Not wishing to spent a lot of time reading all the posts on DTRL l have fitted the Philips running lights. It comes as a kit with full instructions and fits easily. If you have bumpers the bracket holes are already there. Is not you will have to make a couple of brackets. The supply comes from the live cable on the alternator and a connection to the feed to the side lights. The control box is fitted to the side of the firewall under the windscreen wiper.
I will post some photos if required.
The kit cost me £69. Code is LED Daylight 9 daytime Running lights.

There seems to be a critical load point with the BCU controlled indicators when the flash speed jumps from normal (80/min) to almost double. I did get away with one normal LED without resistor and a no-hyperflash one in each indicator circuit and it worked fine although close to the limit for normal operation.
.
I don't like the complexity of external load resistors so would go for the no-hyperflash ones every time. They seem to be readily available in switchback format as well now as per my link earlier in this thread.

Has anybody tried turning off the load sensing in the BCM for blinkers when switching to LED globes. I have found details for other late model cars you just need the correct codes and location. If you have done it please pass on the codes.
Regards
Colin

Never heard of that option on Morgan's. As it is at least you know if a filament bulb or equivalent LED fails.

As a follow up to the switchback LED conversion I performed in front indicator location allowing white sidelights when indicators not selected. For anyone concerned, Morton passed MOT test the other day with no issues. The sidelights are not turned off at night but are lower and weaker than LED headlamps.



Note the camera does exaggerate the brightness here on pic taken at dusk.