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Joined: Oct 2007
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Learner Plates Off!
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Originally Posted By Simon



I like the choice of logo for the Morgan Centenary. I would agree that the logo will be recognised as representing the 100 years of the Morgan Motor Company and not the company itself. I am very much looking forward to 2009 and the celebrations.

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Retrobate
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Originally Posted By Simon
Don't tempt me!


"Mercy and truth are met together: righteousness and peace have kissed each other.
Truth shall flourish out of the earth: and righteousness hath looked down from heaven." Psalm 85, v. 10

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Grumpy Old Man in Flat Cap
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Originally Posted By Paul Hurst
I too would love to see the marque become more popular.


I'm not sure I do. Talking about Bond cars, see what's happened to Aston Martin. Right now, everybody seems to smile and be friendly to Morgan owners. Will that still be the case when footballers and their wives, not to mention rap stars start driving them?

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Yes, Julf, agree that familiarity breeds contempt, but bearing in mind how Morgans are made, I don’t think that they’ll ever be able to reach that level of output – would be nice to know though that they had the security of full order books for a while into the future.

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Talk Morgan Guru
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Originally Posted By julf
Will that still be the case when footballers and their wives, not to mention rap stars start driving them?


I don't think you'll ever have to worry about footballers and rap stars driving Morgans as they are hardly even remotely close to the image they cultivate.

I'm in agreement with Paul - more popular amongst the car enthusiasts community can only be a good thing.

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Originally Posted By Paul Hurst
Yes, Julf, agree that familiarity breeds contempt, but bearing in mind how Morgans are made, I don’t think that they’ll ever be able to reach that level of output – would be nice to know though that they had the security of full order books for a while into the future.

Times are changing. I have no doubt that they can produce and sell 1000 units for 2009..and perhaps after. That is more than double the sales of just a few years ago!

Much of the car's manufacture is out-sourced now and that has sped up unit manufacture. Demand is super strong despite their closure of many markets.

Today's problem is profitability. I don't believe they fully understand yet why unit profit has dropped when unit sales have risen. The MMC used to make far more on far less sales.

Lorne

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Originally Posted By gomog
Today's problem is profitability. I don't believe they fully understand yet why unit profit has dropped when unit sales have risen. The MMC used to make far more on far less sales.


I also hope that increased production will not ruin the once rock solid residual value of the cars as this already seems to have slipped (Roadsters seem to be dropping very quickly).

Not being an expert of the automotive industry my guess would be that depreciation goes hand in hand with the age old 'supply and demand' curve; however, would welcome being proven wrong if someone had a more factual analysis.

Nevertheless, one of the real USPs of the Trad cars would surely have to be the rock solid resale value of preowned cars? If production increases and demand doesn't grow back to the 2-5 year list of many years ago, won't the market just be flooded and used prices drop drastically?

I recognise this is a very simplistic view but the question is a valid one I believe.

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Originally Posted By Simon
I also hope that increased production will not ruin the once rock solid residual value of the cars as this already seems to have slipped (Roadsters seem to be dropping very quickly).
Nevertheless, one of the real USPs of the Trad cars would surely have to be the rock solid resale value of preowned cars? If production increases and demand doesn't grow back to the 2-5 year list of many years ago, won't the market just be flooded and used prices drop drastically?

I recognise this is a very simplistic view but the question is a valid one I believe. Simon

You are right on. Simplicity is a function of solid observation.

Let's speak to trad residuals only. For the last 50 years, residuals have always been at the foundation to the survival of Morgan. High used car prices counter balance all the drawbacks in buying a Morgan (a very expensive, oddly constructed car with a minuscule service network) by eliminating or mitigating the risk. After all, what is the risk in buying a 50k automobile if you can sell it for the same price or more at any time?

Outside of the UK, residuals remain high..and where supply has been suspended, incredibly high. A Roadster in the US sells for more than it was purchased for 2 years ago. A 10 year old Plus 8 sells at a 15% premium..and the premium increases the older the car is. The NZ, Australian and Canadian experience is the same and all three countries have a deep tradition of mog restoration. Restoration makes marque residuals age- and mileage-resistant. European used mog prices are very buoyant for other reasons. It was undersold there for a very long time.

The local problem with the UK is that it was heavily oversold recently. The Company kept pumping sales (admittedly, there wasn't much choice at the time) with a constant supply of different Specials, Anniversary cars, "last" cars, "first" cars, showroom cars etc etc

It is generally accepted that these selling techniques only convince next year's buyers to buy this year. They do not create new buyers. When next year arrives, new buyers have become hard to find and throughout this process, residuals plummet. MMC UK sales dropped from over 60% of all Morgan sales to 30% in 18 months. The Company responded by appointing new dealers, lowering commissions and abandoning the dealer allocation system in the UK.

Happily, the short-lived but huge US sales carried the company until European sales robustly took up the slack. The UK market is now recovering and I expect that it will reclaim a part of its lost production share by the end of this year (back up to 42- 45%). That is great as there is always a question of how long the European market (or any single market for that matter) will remain "hot".

However, the outlook for UK residuals may not be rosy for a little bit longer. There will likely be yet another Special for 2009 and very large supply that year. That will depress used car prices until it is over (and perhaps new cars sales after). Alternatively, they can choose to raise prices rather than production. That will increase new buyer risk but help used car residuals.

In either case, the profit issue still has to be addressed.

Lorne

P.S. As to the waiting list, Mr. Peter Morgan never trusted it and he was right. He kept production limited to what he knew he could count on to be sold and make profits with and allocated that production carefully amongst the dealers' network to keep everyone alive and the network as widespread as possible.

The present MMC doesn't trust a waiting list either. Their solution is to require UK dealers to buy their supply a year in advance. Those who don't buy a sufficient number may be removed.

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Originally Posted By gomog
High used car prices counter balance all the drawbacks in buying a Morgan (a very expensive, oddly constructed car with a minuscule service network) by eliminating or mitigating the risk.


Could not have said this better had I attempted to.

Popularity and increased sales at the risk of high residual values would be counter productive imho. It may increase short term profits but would decrease the desire of owners to buy another car.

As you said Lorne, many (including myself) can ignore some of the weaknesses of the product if the USPs (strong retained value and classic good looks) counterbalance it. If you start loosing the USPs, you start loosing the reasons why customers will choose your product over other offerings (imho).

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Originally Posted By gomog
MMC UK sales dropped from over 60% of all Morgan sales to 30% in 18 months.


As it's me who keeps on going on about 'facts' I thought I better stay in character and ask where this fact comes from? Is it published somewhere, if not what/who is your source? waiting


Phil Egginton
1979 4/4 4 seater
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