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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,723 Likes: 149
Member of the Inner Circle
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OP
Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,723 Likes: 149 |
In another thread, http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/115290/, I made the proposal to start a discussion on what people would like to see in the 2014 Plus 4 Its time Morgan made the more powerful cars with an up to date suspension system I'm sure it wouldn't cost much and would improve the cars no end ..Keep the 4/4 with the traditional set up for the purists and update the the others..
Not with the Aero chassis too expensive I'm sure ,just a simple steel frame with independent coil overs front and rear..
An Eco turbo engine in the Plus 4 would be nice at the same time .
we can only hope... I'm with you on this Pete. If Morgan produced such a car I think I would be one of the first to place an order. I love the Plus 4 but I don't view it with rose tinted glasses. I Might start a thread asking what people would like to see in the 2014 Plus 4  There were several responses which I hope people will re-post in this thread. I have posted this in the Malvern Arms forum because I think it really comes under the realm of a pub discussion. Let me start the ball rolling by saying that I don't believe things should always stay the same. Suspension technology has changed dramatically over the years and to my mind there is no reason why, under the skin, the trad Morgan could not be slightly brought up to date. Dampers (shock absorbers) and steering mechanicals have changed, why not the suspension itself? Librands have successfully developed a front suspension system compatible with the current chassis so that does not seem a huge problem. Goodness knows for how long a suitable rear live axle will be available for Morgan but a modification to the rear part of the chassis to incorporate coil springs and even independent rear suspension would not seem impossible. I suspect switching to a bonded aluminium tub may prove too expensive for a Plus 4 (and Roadster) but I really do not know. I don't believe that independent suspension all round is incompatible with a simple chassis. Internally I would like to see the cockpit and footwells just a little wider, say a total of 4 inches or 100 mm. The current width gets a bit tight when two people are rugged up in flying jackets. The width of the running boards could be narrower to maintain the same overall width of the car. Regarding the engine, yes please a nice torque and about 200 to 210 hp please. An EcoBoost or similar engine will probably be the direction to go.
Peter ![[Linked Image]](http://bradley.it/public_images/drive.jpg)
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,888 Likes: 22
Charter Member
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Charter Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,888 Likes: 22 |
In another thread, http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/115290/, I made the proposal to start a discussion on what people would like to see in the 2014 Plus 4 Its time Morgan made the more powerful cars with an up to date suspension system I'm sure it wouldn't cost much and would improve the cars no end ..Keep the 4/4 with the traditional set up for the purists and update the the others..
Not with the Aero chassis too expensive I'm sure ,just a simple steel frame with independent coil overs front and rear..
An Eco turbo engine in the Plus 4 would be nice at the same time .
we can only hope... I'm with you on this Pete. If Morgan produced such a car I think I would be one of the first to place an order. I love the Plus 4 but I don't view it with rose tinted glasses. I Might start a thread asking what people would like to see in the 2014 Plus 4 There were several responses which I hope people will re-post in this thread. I have posted this in the Malvern Arms forum because I think it really comes under the realm of a pub discussion. Let me start the ball rolling by saying that I don't believe things should always stay the same. Suspension technology has changed dramatically over the years and to my mind there is no reason why, under the skin, the trad Morgan could not be slightly brought up to date. Dampers (shock absorbers) and steering mechanicals have changed, why not the suspension itself? Librands have successfully developed a front suspension system compatible with the current chassis so that does not seem a huge problem. Goodness knows for how long a suitable rear live axle will be available for Morgan but a modification to the rear part of the chassis to incorporate coil springs and even independent rear suspension would not seem impossible. I suspect switching to a bonded aluminium tub may prove too expensive for a Plus 4 (and Roadster) but I really do not know. I don't believe that independent suspension all round is incompatible with a simple chassis. Internally I would like to see the cockpit and footwells just a little wider, say a total of 4 inches or 100 mm. The current width gets a bit tight when two people are rugged up in flying jackets. The width of the running boards could be narrower to maintain the same overall width of the car. Regarding the engine, yes please a nice torque and about 200 to 210 hp please. An EcoBoost or similar engine will probably be the direction to go. As an outsider looking in so to speak, I do agree with your comments. There can be no rational reason for keeping out of date suspension when you dont also keep out of date engines and transmission and brakes. If you want an old car have an old car but dont pretend that one that is part old part modern is really an old car. I would like to see rear disk brakes and personally I would go for a styling update a la Mini or Beetle. Something that retained the basics of what is currently there but updated it in a more sympathetic way that the Aero models.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,328
Gone to Porsche Part of the Furniture
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Gone to Porsche Part of the Furniture
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,328 |
I would like to see rear disk brakes and personally I would go for a styling update a la Mini or Beetle. Something that retained the basics of what is currently there but updated it in a more sympathetic way that the Aero models.
+1 
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 477
Learner Plates Off!
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Learner Plates Off!
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 477 |
Gambalunga & Howard, you get my vote. If we are putting modern engines in Mogs then, come on lets admit we have moved forward. Morgans evolve.. the Aero, etc.... no argument there, so yes, keep the Trad Style but allow a few modern upgrades for us poor relations. If the purists want, or indeed are physically able to maintain an 'original' then hats off.
I for one do not want to be excluded from my addiction because I can't get down and dirty any more!
Dave
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 14,009
Member of the Inner Circle
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Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 14,009 |
Sorry guys.....I totally disagree with you! The attraction of the current traditional Morgan is the old fashioned chassis and suspension. It gives me the "feel" that I'm looking for. Rear disk brakes? The current drums can lock up my back wheels...so why do I need disks? Different if you are running a more powerful,car such as the latest Baby Doll or for competition use where brake fade might be a problem. If you change the chassis and suspension in my view you lose the essence of the Morgan and end up with a pretty bodied modern car with no character.
Still....each to their own. I've no problem with Morgan developing modern underpinnings....the Aero range for example.....they need to progress the Company to survive. Just keep the Trads trad!
Jays
Former Morgan owner. Gone but hopefully not forgotten!
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 534
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 534 |
Sorry guys.....I totally disagree with you! The attraction of the current traditional Morgan is the old fashioned chassis and suspension. It gives me the "feel" that I'm looking for. Rear disk brakes? The current drums can lock up my back wheels...so why do I need disks? Different if you are running a more powerful,car such as the latest Baby Doll or for competition use where brake fade might be a problem. If you change the chassis and suspension in my view you lose the essence of the Morgan and end up with a pretty bodied modern car with no character.
Still....each to their own. I've no problem with Morgan developing modern underpinnings....the Aero range for example.....they need to progress the Company to survive. Just keep the Trads trad! +1
3.7 Roadster
4" Ruston Procter SD Tractor
1905 Merryweather steam fire engine
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,871 Likes: 168
Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
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Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,871 Likes: 168 |
It would be interesting - if they offered a choice of trad chassis or aluminium chassis with modern suspension, how many would sell of each.
Rear discs are not necessary on a light car and are often fitted to modern cars when drums would do the same job. Probably more to do with standardisation and cost management than need. They look good though!
The present set up of leaf springs at the rear spreads the load between the front hanger and rear hanger. Any sort of trailing arm set up will put most of the load (especially when accelerating) through the front pivots, and the upper mount of the springs/dampers, so it will be focussed just in front of the rear axle. Any IRS tied to a chassis which can twist will be a compromise, because wheel deflection will first twist the softer of the spring or the chassis. At least a live axle keeps the rear wheels vertical for most of the time. Perhaps an improved chassis is a way forward without resorting to an aluminium tub.
What would tempt me is a 4 cyl engine with 250bhp in a footprint somewhere between the current 4/4 and Plus4. But not sketched as a competition car which is the usual trend, but as a tourer with a spare wheel. The 4/4 2 Litre is almost my perfect Morgan (with more power). I would want a two plus four instrument dash from the mid 00's and an easy up hood, and over riders. So they almost make my ideal car now.
MMC focus far too much on competition imagery when the evidence seems to be that the majority of aging buyers are more interested in Sunday lunch.
DaveW
'05 Red Roadster S1
'16 Yellow (Not the only) Narrow AR GDI Plus 4
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,491 Likes: 65
Part of the Furniture
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Part of the Furniture
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,491 Likes: 65 |
Personally, I don't care what's under the car as long as it works efficiently and is cost effective.
Not interested in the type of brakes it has as long as it stops okay.
Not a fan of the regular suspension greasing shenanigans, and I learnt very quickly that my mog does not like speed bumps, or any kind of bumps come to that.
Not keen on the handbrake either.
2021 Lapis Blue Plus 6  You know it makes sense!  2016 Carmine Red 991.2 C4S
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 56
Just Getting Started
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Just Getting Started
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 56 |
I'm possibly own my own but I'd really like wind-up windows !
A few bad experiances over the years with side screens coupled with living in the Lake District where it's often wet puts them high on my wish list - plus of course at least 200bhp for trackdays.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,553 Likes: 88
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,553 Likes: 88 |
This is developing into a really interesting discussion.
I tend to side with Jays comments and actually delight in all the fiddling around that is part of ownership.
Thinking back to recent Morgan "adventures" such things as the Le Mans Classic, much of the fun and camaraderie that developed between our group was as a result of character of the cars.
A "new" +4 opens up all sorts of possibilities and could sit between the 4/4 and the +8 and Aero in the range. But this then further opens up the discussion of the direction MMC will take in the future?
I believe that whatever direction the modifications on a modern +4 take, it is essential that a traditional car is maintained, or I fear that the quirkiness of the Traditional Morgan (that so many of us love) will diminish.
Bud (Long live the 4/4)
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2003 - 4/4
Bud
4/4 "Stanley"
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