Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 UK driving licence changes

I drove a 3W today, for the first time. It's nothing like a motorbike (my last bike was a Z1100). In fact you actually forget its got three wheels, it's so similar to a car.

Dino - if you've not done so, suggest you read this thread from post 1 which I made.

You are right in thinking it's a daft idea, the club has not given up although where one goes now is not clear. The Minister for Transport has seen my letter stressing the safety aspects`but the reply is along the lines the EEC is to blame and the 'grandfathering' is a concession.

Correspondence I've seen says the UK representatives did not want trikes to change from B1 but were voted down by the rest. However real information from that time is hard to come by and I still cling to the belief that the EEC think a trike is a motor bike with a back axle, not a car with a wheel less.

Hi Martyn. Have indeed read the whole thread and I commend you on having raised a very important point which, with respect to others, seems to have slipped off the radar of this topic at times.

Do you know whether the MMC have taken up this issue with their contacts as it is as much in their interest as ours that car and probably some bike licence holders can drive (NOT ride) the M3W on their respective licences. MMC are you reading this/aware of the issue?

I am in the process of lobbying MP and MEP too but it really needs the responsible EC/DVLA officials to see one on these unique vehicles. They clearly seem to be totally unaware of its form as it is a much a car, sat behind the controls, as a car!!

Think this rule must stem from the continental preference for the chopper type three wheeler which is, in my view, clearly of bike origin. Guess that is all the MEPs and EC officials see and know about so I, for one, am going to help do something about it.

It is never too late to change these administrative rules.

Dino I literally tripped over the issue in August last year when I was looking for something else. Until then, no-one in the Morgan three wheeler world was aware, having been let down by the FHBVC. As far as I know, the MMC aren't doing anything but are aware.

UK type approval already contains the needed definitions as the requirements for seat belts and two rather than one headlight hinge on the "car bodied" and "motorcycle bodied" trikes. If the EEC were persuaded these two are not the same type of vehicle, and a car could legitimately have three wheels - but be a car for the purposes of a driving licence, all would be rosy.

That was the thrust of my letters to MPs but I got nowhere. I'm not greatly concerned about 'the value of my investment' but I am concerned for the future of the hobby. Ultimately the continuance will depend on young blood and having to jump through hoops for an irrelevant motorbike licence will do much to kill the hobby.

I could not agree more. I am concerned on all fronts and great to hear of your vigilance as I missed it completely and I wonder how many others have.

I am going to up my campaign and do all I can to endeavour that common sense prevails.

Come on MMC get your butts in gear! And if they are then please share your secrets with the rest of us.....you have the most to lose if the directive is not changed as it covers all EC countries.

I had read this thread a while back with great interest as I wondered what licence rules might apply in Australia if the 3 Wheeler went on sale. I understand the current compliance process is being done on the basis the 3 Wheeler is a car and not a motorcycle, hence the requirement for three crash tests. I have also read the changes required to meet Australian car standards include higher roll over hoops behind driver and passenger that incorporate head rests. So it seems that if the 3 Wheeler passes compliance it will be classified as a car and a standard car licence is all that will be required to drive one. As a car it will also be exempt from motorcycle helmet laws. On the down side it will be subject to our ridiculous luxury car tax that will push up the purchase price. I know this doesn't help UK & European markets but thought it might be useful background info.

Martyn,
There used to be a once a year gathering of motorcyclists at Westminster - giving the chance for those non-motorcyclists to experience a pillion ride (i.e. those in either house, plus extras, who were PTW riders had a chance to show non-riders how 'good' motorcylcing could be).
I don't know whether these events still continue, but it might be an obvious chance to demonstrate the total difference between an M3W and a PTW?
Cheers,

I'm a bit confused over this new EU legislation... so for example it was decided to reintroduce a Reliant Robin would that also be classed as a motorbike?

Jays, yes, a Reliant Robin is a motorbike from the driving licence point of view. Even more daftly so is a Scammel Scarab.


And the one illustrated can gross at 6 tons!

Graham - as far as I know, the problem is not the UK view of a three wheeler, but some other countries in the EEC.

As I understand the workings of the EEC, there is no chance of the third directive being ammended as the original proposal document should have been discussed in all countries and the final proposal was accepted by the EEC Parliament and thus required to become law in member states.

The only way forward would be a fourth European directive on driving licences, ie a new one, that correctly differentiated between the car bodied and the motor cycle bodied trikes. It's at this point education is needed as to what a three wheeler can be.

Bear in mind the third directive became law at the beginning of the year but I believe the discussion document that started the problem appeared in 2006!

MAG have held several 'events' in Brussels over the years.
maybe we should gather some M3W, Reliant Robin (and family) plus a Scarab or three owners together and plan a RAID on EU?