Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 Bespoke sportscar or hastily put together kit car?

Nice one Easter, there are serious matters being considered here, but we should keep a sense of proportion, and indeed humour

Which (tongue firmly in cheek) brings me to:



Risky the Morgan vs Boat analogy... we all know in our heart of hearts that Morgans leak like a sieve, why else would the topic of where to store the towels be so prominent at MSCC meets?

So, maybe Morgan should get a few boat builders on board to save the sinking ship (so to speak)

at a rough guess every £1 spent fixing a problem prior to delivery will cost £3 under warrenty, not to mention the bad customer relations associated with avoidable warrenty work.

Not coming down on either side, i guess you could say i am on the fence, on the fence because i bought second hand, however the Max had not been 'as we describe' fettled, simply because the previous owner 'to my knowledge' had not pointed out the problems to the dealer or Factory, plus the car had only covered 1900mls.

I excused these issues with it been an Aeromax (a 1 off hand built car), i can also excuse any new design such as the 3W, because its a relatively new design, but as far as i am concerned the +4 & 4/4 that have been in production for many years should be nothing less than perfect.

PDI on these cars should be no more than checking levels, tyre pressures and lighting up objects that light up and switch off as and when required. end of.

Even as a hand built Machine ' with good quality control' these models from one to the next should come rolling out nothing short of perfect, lets face it these models are not 'one off' maybe in there specific colour or leather trim, with the odd accessory extra, but bottom line there are all one and the same.

As for an earlier posting ( i aint scrolling back, to many postings) regarding the seat belt hole being drilled twice or thrice times...discracefull, if someone was using that semi skill attitude, he would be back emptying bins for a living.

But why would i stay on the fence, here's why

Last week i received 3 x Paint mixing machines from my supplier in China, we have received the same model on 2 shipments previuosly with no problems.

on opening the caskets to inspect and test each machine for working all three machines are faulty ( cost of each machine £1800.00), they are tripping when the heater cuts in.

When contacting the Manufacturer in China, we were transfered to their european tech support, below is the answer i received by email after describing the problem.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
" Thats the first time that has happened"
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Its not only Morgans and its not only cars.

I raised the boat analogy so..

All NEW yachts are subject to "sea trials" to find out what is faulty and there is usually a long list.. yes the dealer sometimes sorts it out, but often it is the customer. With a Morgan I hope the list is a bit shorter..

Anyhow, I leave you with this thought. More people drown in cars than drown in the sea in the UK. On that basis health and safety should be demanding we all wear life-jackets in cars..

Oliver S.

Blake, I won't go through all of your posts individually but I'll put in some overall comments.
Bevel Box these I know are supplied by a well know differential manufacturer and despite many being returned it appears that they still struggle to get the product right all the time for road cars. I had a colleague with an R500 ho has the same problem

Seems the issues of noise aren't as sensitive in the normal diffs they engineer for race cars. I've been at the factory and witnessed a 3w coming back from a road test and being sent for a new bevel box as the tester suspected it wouldn't quieten down, I think this is the challenge for the factory as they all appear to make some noise from the off,but its guess work determining if this will get better or not. Last time I was at the factory they seemed to be trying to produce some scientific method of testing to race the mk1 ear drum.

The factory do view the site but I don't think you'll find any comment on here. I was with Simon and a couple of MMC guys today and we did discuss your issues.

The issues of quality are obviously important to all businesses and deano makes some valid comments about cost I think we'd all love to have our cars come out of the factory 100% but then what would we all have to do, we have no DaveW how to posts.

In one of the offices at the factory they have a graph showing warranty claims ( they'll move it now you watch) next time I'm over I'll have a look. But to get this perspective when developing the 3 wheeler MMC were trying to get 5000 miles on the development car I suspect if it was a BMW it would have been 500,000 and a 2 year shake down process. I think it was Steven 1560 who best summed it up when he said we're all part of the customer prototype programme.

Maybe they need to include this line in the marketing material.

I do hope you get you're problems resolved and back in love with the 3w if only so I can see more pictures of your 3 wheeler around San Francisco.

I am absolutly sure most morgan employees turn up to do a good job, but being human, mistakes will be made.
Morgan currently do a PDI at the end of their assebly process and statistics tell us that if you fire enough defects into a manual inspection process, defects will get through. Also this will get worse over time if not corrected. (I know that defect went through ok last week and it soon becomes the norm)
If I wanted to improve the warranty claims for poor quatity, I would introduce PDI's at each major assembly point and cars would not be allowed to proceed without being 100% correct. (signed of initally by head of dept as its only 15-20 cars per week)
Also employees in subsequent departments should be allowed to reject cars with faults found.

Only problem with this type of approach is that it will slow production rates until a 'right first time culture' is adopted by all personal. Hence a brave management team would be required to see it through and the reason most avoid it.

OK, my second (and last) attempt to lighten the mood a bit:

Nice one Oliver, so... now a life jacket should be obligatory together with the Irvine flying jacket, flying helmet and goggles for a M3W, especially if it is in Spitfire Green with the decals and bullet holes.... Tally Ho Skipper

Finally, for some balance.

I've just totted up our new BMW tally, which stands at 15 (in amongst other makes), over the last 25 years or so. I am a self confessed demanding customer, but can honestly say and I've only had three problems in that period to offset against many tens of thousands of miles of reliable motoring. The first was a new set of front floating discs and pads on an M3 Evo, which was my own fault really for leaving the discs wet for a lengthy period after washing the car. The other two problems relate to my current 320d Touring, the first being a new clutch needed and detailed elsewhere on TM, the second being a load compartment cover unit replaced under warranty due to an annoying rattle. I'm aware, via a long term friend who was a BMW Dealer Principle, that BMW turned away from the principle of "The customer is always right" for reputation management purposes, to a more "litigious" stance some years ago. This is probably why dealerships have to jump through hoops more these days to get warranty work agreed by BMW HQ. Given the stories of some customers' totally unreasonable expectations of warranty support, I have to say that I'm hardly surprised. Nonetheless, given the Morgan links to BMW, I'm also a little surprised that some of the BMW ethos hasn't either rubbed off, or been demanded as part of the ongoing liaison.

I have a sneaking suspicion that someone from the factory actively monitors forums such as ours, let's face it, they would be foolish if they were unaware of what their customers were talking about, good, as well as bad, but I don't suppose we will ever see a response on here. Some of you will notice that I also have a Caterham, well, more to the point, I've had over a dozen since my first one in 1986, so have got to know the company quite well. A few years ago the family business, yes, a bit like Morgan, were bought by a venture capital mob, they put in an MD, who was actually quite successful, but more importantly acknowledged the existence of the club forum, and even posted useful stuff from time to time. He became well regarded. The company has changed hands again and he has left/had to leave, but the new CEO also seems to feel the need to communicate with his customers, not quite so directly as the forum, but nevertheless, has done so. So, I have to ask, where is Charles Morgan, or even the new MD?

A previous quote: "...introduce PDI's at each major assembly point...... ", this is the opposite of how modern production works, in such the manufacturing & assembly process has to be made so perfect and faultfree that inspection is not required. The final test is proof that the process is good, not to spot and fix faults. OK this is MMC, still developing their process - PJB

Just to beat this horse past an inch of its life...I'll lend my two cents, though take it for what it is having never had the privilege of owning a Morgan.

I can completely sympathize with Blake from a pragmatic standpoint. I live in the USA. The US(at my best estimate) has around 25 M3W's...give or take five let's say. I'd wager that's even on the high end...point being, I would wager there are dealerships in Britain with 25 M3W's! The support base stateside is nowhere near what it is across the pond. I'd be baffled if technicians from the States even went over to Malvern to see the production line and learn from the craftsmen that built the beast. It's incredibly difficult to market, sell and most importantly support a product, if you have no idea what you're selling.

Having said that, it's not all doom, gloom, and hate on MMC. Blake and I had a great chat this morning on the phone - it's easy to tell the guy is just thrilled with the ride(and I would be too, despite his troubles - have you SEEN his 3W??), but you have to be able to understand his...agnst(best thing I could come up with). As he pointed out, it IS embarrassing for both company and consumer when he takes people on rides and has to make excuses for problems that shouldn't exist. Don't get me wrong, I will one day own a Morgan, and I will make the same excuses...but it does just kill me. We live in a slightly different world here unfortunately - even for the most technical of issues, I would only trust a 3W to one individual on the West Coast(Dennis Glavis and his technicians). That's it! It's ludicrous to have to be okay with "fettling away those little niggles" that come with Morgan ownership, if it's going to cost me $3,000 in shipping just to get it to the technician.
Obviously, as someone pointed out above...the joy of Morgan ownership does not find its roots in fiscally responsible and worry-free motoring, it's very much a living relationship where there has got to be some give and take. In that light, I guess that's just how you get a piece of automotive history. With the disclaimer that even though the final product is brand new, the craftsmen are only human and the technique is somewhat dated.

RE: asbojohn comparing BMW vs. MMC and their development capabilities - how is it even possible that Morgan struggled to get 5,000mi on the M3W before release? Give me a set of keys and I can(and have) put 15,000mi on a collector car(1968 Camaro) in just a few short months! Not ragging on MMC, just lamenting the fact that they didn't know my time and services were available to drive everyday and report back with compliments and complaints!