Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 Bespoke sportscar or hastily put together kit car?

Asbojohn described it well. Don't Forget to secure the grub screws with loctite. I did that at my 4/4 two years ago and the knob is still ok.

Keep mogging

Christian

Hello Blake.

For my tuppence worth, I belive that Morgan are victims of their own success with the 3W.

When I last visited the factory , it was awash with 3Ws being assembled and talk of 1,000 - plus orders on the book.

I suspect a degree of corner cutting to keep lead times as short as poss and thus 'cars' being sent out 97 % right rather than 99%.

However, the cleaning /pdi issues are not one your dealer should walk away from (HE hasn't got 1000 + orders to get thru).

I'd be asking for a free service as an opening gambit (and accept a compromise of some sort).

And then I'd accept that my unique transport of pleasure is occasionally going to let me down (eg cracked radiator 150 miles from home...)

Hope this helps

Jeremy

Morgan owners do tend to put up with "niggles" and that is partr of the game - mogs being "work in progress" on the other hand I do think it is time that the works started to take into account the problems that owners of new cars have. I hope that with a new MD this may become more of a priority.
But above all enjoy!! they are great cars whether 3 or 4 wheel and offer more smiles per gallon than anything else I have come across.

Whilst this doesn't answer the core issues mentioned, I have long advocated an approach to new customer service which I personally did not experience, as a first time customer, at the dealer level. Namely, if the potential customer is new to Morgan, the salesperson is very clear about what a 'new owner' should expect. Please do not think that I am excusing poor quality; however, I believe that an honest discussion about what to expect from a handmade product, that it may require some fettling at the first service (and that is part of the reason there is such an early service), would help to set the expectations at a realistic level for people weaned on mainstream modern cars.

I know that in my case, this would have really helped with my first, and painful, Morgan ownership experience. Whilst the car had issues, the dealer exacerbated the problem greatly with poor PDI, less than ideal customer service and gaps in product knowledge. The entire experience was simply unacceptable; however, (and here is the rub) the moment I sold the car, I began to miss it... in spite of it being a massive thorn in my side for 9-months! I pondered this for a long while before realising that so many of the issues and the associated stress could have been alleviated, or avoided all together, had the dealer taken a more educational approach at the beginning.

My guess is they were worried they may have lost a sale had they been honest about what early ownership may entail; however, my view is this is short sighted and, in fact, they would have actually engender trust and a stronger rapport, whilst helping to set expectations at a level which helps to limit the impact of teething issues.

Just my 2-cents and in no way is it trying to dismiss the concerns Blake has, nor minimise how frustrating they are. My view is more an opinion on what I believe the sales side of the business can be doing whilst the factory continues to strive for improved quality (as I know they are committed to doing).

Hello Blake,

For what it is worth, I am right there with you on this. I've previously tried posting what were, IMHO, pretty well balanced views on the quality vs price issues, together with this weekend some more humorous, tongue in cheek versions. At the generous end of the response spectrum there is little support on TM for this view, at the more controlling end of the spectrum and you will guided and cajoled away from anything that may rock the boat with MMC. No matter what, you will definitely be swimming against a fairly strong tide.

Now, it has been very clearly pointed out to me recently that this is a discussion forum, and that we are each free to express our points of view. Further, that from time to time others views may differ based on background experience or life's path, and that this is all par for the course, provided we remain within the rules. I took a sabbatical from posting recently whilst I got my head around the alternate option, which was to delete my account.

So I will say right here and now, that I really enjoy this forum. It is like "popping into your local pub" to meet up with the clientele, some of who may be good friends, and others with whom you perhaps wouldn't normally associate with. The TM forum is an excellent (free) resource provided by Simon to Morgan owners, offering a myriad of services including inter alia support, technical exchange, fraternity, humour and banter. It is, in the world of fora, perceived to be a "nice site", and I concur with this.

Nonetheless, IMHO, I believe that debate and discussion of some of the more difficult aspects of Morgan ownership is healthy, and if taken in the spirit I believe it is generally intended, which is to say aimed towards the overall improvement of the marque to the benefit of both owner and to the reputation of MMC as a whole, then it is a potentially invaluable asset to Morgan, should they wish to listen.

So, getting back on thread to the quality vs cost argument Blake. IMHO your comparison to BMW and the like is entirely valid. You clearly have accepted that Morgans are not built on hyper expensive robotic assembly lines, but are marketed as being hand build with love by skilled craftsmen using all the finest materials to deliver a high quality product to a discerning customer. Similarly, I fully accept that any complex piece of machinery which is assembled by hand has the potential to have human error faults. However, adequate multi stage quality control and commissioning testing should be capable of eliminating a very significant proportion of these; I'm not naive enough to say ALL. The dealer PDI process combined with sympathetic ongoing support from the dealers and factory should be all that is needed to address a small number of "snagging issues". It is all a matter of what the manufacturer deems to be an appropriate level of service and quality acceptable to supply to their customers. IMHO, this is the nub of the issue for most owners who have posted problems on TM.

Now, I suggest that your observation of the level of debris (steel/aluminium cuttings, wood shavings, cable trimmings, etc., etc.) is symptomatic of the build standards currently embraced by MMC. I toured the factory last year and was surprised that,on that day, nowhere did I see a vacuum cleaner to remove this type of detritus from the vehicles on the production line. Cars were littered with bits of production debris and the workers were tucking and glueing leather, fitting carpets and seats, regardless. Incidentally, when I took the carpets and tool shelf out of my 2005 Plus last year when I bought it, it still had similar debris accumulations.

I can hear the Morganites, in particular the "Three Musketeers" (our Moderators ) sighing as they read this, as they pen the "is this all you've got to moan about" reply. But, I also observed one of the skilled craftsmen drilling holes in the passenger seat backrest of a new Plus 8 to attach a seatbelt guide, whilst chatting to a colleague. He got it wrong and tried again, twice! Hmmm, that'll be alright, it's only a seat belt guide.

Whilst I accept that the first example is in real terms trivial, but it is symptomatic of attitudes. In Blake's case, and in my own experience, it doesn't bathe the dealers PDI process in glory either. Also, one could argue that even the second example may not be front line safety. However, on the day the seatbelt is called into action I would prefer to be confident it would remain where it should and not pull out of its mounting in the region around my beloved passengers neck because of a bodged fitting.

Now I love my Morgan, don't take me wrong. I delivers a very special, period experience that the BMW M car, 911, Boxster, Audi RS, Caterham/Westfield, etc. varietals I have run cannot. I also accept that I've not dabbled in the elite and rarified Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. arena that may have small volume issues at a much higher price threshold.

But, none of this should cloud reasonable judgement that there are two ways of achieving a quality product. For mass production in the current day it has to be via intense R&D, economies of scale, international low labour cost build bases, state-of-the-art robotic construction and delivery scheduling, and with highly controlled dealer networks, etc., etc. For the low volume, hand crafted product that was Morgan, there is ultimately no substitute for the family business with passion for the quality of your product. When you start to spread your wings and grow, then if the family passion is to be evident in the finished product, then either all your staff have to grow with you and with your value sets fully embedded, or you need to implement adequate quality controls commensurate with your values and the expectations of your customer base... and by this I mean beyond the "rose tinted specs" lost causes that perhaps wouldn't have anything but a Morgan, or have enough cash sloshing around to not be bothered.

Discuss...

There... MHO in the debate posted. Incoming

P.S. Not intended to be WW3 Simon, one finger typed following Cineman's post whilst you were all posting

Agreed Simon, to some extent the dealer network would do better to follow your advice for new cars, but the factory surly must take some responsibility for initial quality and follow up support in a the same spirit. There are, IMHO, too many rebuttal examples, recorded on this genuinely nice and undoubtedly pro Morgan site, under the "they all do that sir" of "just give it a bit more time, it might bed in" banners for comfort.... really.

I guess the plea is... "Morgan please listen, we're only trying to help, and it will pay dividends in the end"

For what it's worth I have had similar issues with TVR and Bristol.

I firmly believe that it is a "management" issue - insufficient regard placed on inspection and quality control. This is perceived as being expensive, but I am convinced improved (Exhaustive!) pre delivery inspection would save in the long run.

With regard to Simon's comments about missing cars that have been a royal pain in the arse - is it like Stockholm Syndrome??

over the last 20 years I have run all manner of hand built and/or old cars. Every few of years I buy a "New car" and say to myself "never again". Within a couple of weeks I am back on the phone looking for my fix again.

Good post Monte.... Delicately phrased too.

I sort of sit on the fence a little and can see both sides. I've owned Lamborghini, Bentley, Aston, Ford, Subaru, Range Rover, Jaguar, Toyota, BMW, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda and Ryobi (strimmer) and now Morgan. Without doubt, all other cars I've owned have been better finished. While they've all had their foibles and niggles, the Morgan is unique in its rather home made feel.

But.... The dealer experience (in the UK) is far better than any other manufacturer, they are enthusiasts not greasy sales people.

And.... The car is prettier than any car has a right to be. Which brings a massive smile just to look at it, let alone look down that louvred bonnet to the road ahead.

Does this excuse a shoddy finish? No. That gear knob is amateur hour. But as posted by Mike earlier, it's a bit like owning a boat. Or, indeed, a vintage car.

Morgan are now at a price point where poor finishing is not going to be accepted. Also, my experience of owning a Ford GT is that American owners are fastidious keepers of their cars with surgically clean garages and engine bays. I envy them. But a Morgan generally will not stand such close scrutiny.

There is and should be a difference between mass produced automobiles and hand made one offs. My expectation is that my M3 will be an ongoing challenge to keep proper, but i'm in need an occasional project and enjoy the mechanical process of keeping the M3 on the road.

Modern BMWs ect are hands off cars, brought to the shop, for all repairs. Morgan's seem to be owned and enjoyed by the "stiff upper lip crowd" who take pleasure in spinning a wrench, and enjoy the challenge of a repair as needed.

I enjoy automotive maintenance beyond washing and waxing, and the M3 allows me to get my hands dirty on occasion. Simple, primitive, yet modern, offering a pleasure beyond any other car in the garage.

It gets taken out when I have time for both a drive and a roadside challenge, when I'm going no where and have all day to get there. Drive the Bimmer to work, drive the M3 as a hobby.


The bevel box can be quieted with Moroso Climbing Gear Lube. The shift knob can be replaced with an aftermarket one from an aftermarket supplier.

All that you mention is part of the fun, and ill bet you are having fun.

I think the analogy with yacht ownership and commissioning of a new yacht is a good one.

One thing that yacht builders have got a lot better at over the years is pre-delivery check lists completed by both factory and dealer/ distributor. They have also ramped up their after sales customer care.

I think there are some very good Morgan dealers in the UK and I wonder how much work they have to do with a car delivered from the factory prior to an owner taking delivery? Perhaps the dealers who contribute to this forum would care to give an indication.

I accept that Morgans like yachts will have their problems but it would appear that quality is still not being addressed in the factory or indeed lessons learnt. In which case dealers will or are already taking on part of the quality process.

When I am in a position to have the joy of owning a Morgan again it will be a car that is 2-3 years old and hopefully will be 'sorted'

I feel sorry for Blake who is having his who;le experience tainted and agree with many of others comments on quality

Still I have still to get into a happy position being able to return to Morgan ownership