Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) New 4/4 Questions...

Hi Everyone

I'm considering a 4/4 purchase, probably new, and as a weekend car replacing my Audi TT 225 Coupe which is just three years old but never really gets used that much - brilliant car though it is.

Having gone throught the price list, the 4/4 seems to make better sense from a financial point of view, though I feel I may miss some of the performance - but thats not the point of buying one.

I'm confused about a number of options on the factory price list, so bear with me while I list them - hoping someone can respond to each one in turn

1 - Seats - listed as an option (!!!), and specified as folding and reclininng. What would be the standard factory option ?

2 - Hood - again listed as an option, but as I live in the UK actualy a requirement. It seems a 'mohair' set of hoods/sidescreens/tonneau can be had for around £1400, but a PVC version can be done for only £500. What do most people purchase ? Is the PVC one resilient enought ?

3 - Bonnet Strap - I like the traditional idea of this - but is it weather proof and does it scratch the bonnet ?

4 - Wheels - wire wheels look the best, but S-Steel ones seems too expensive, are the 'silver painted' ones okay ? Will they look as good ? Who goes for the boring standard fit alloys ?

5 - A radio seems pointless (like on an Elise) but I guess I should order one - what do others do ?

6 - Is there a heater ?

7 - This extra tread thing, 2 or 3 seem to look good - how many do most people order ?

8 - Can't see the point of the wing beading - anyone done this ?

9 - Spot/Fog lights, I may have missed this off the price list - do people put them on ??

10 - Two-tone paint, I like the idea of this and Ivory/Claret would look good - any pictures of this combination ? Or perhaps its a bit too bling ??

11 - Full width or just overriders ??

12 - I used to have an organ pedal on my old Carlton (back in the 80's) but I actually cannot remember what it was like - any clues from those out there ? And whats the advantage ?

13 - I've seen a number of dash layouts - and cream dials do look good, whats the current factory spec and can this be customised with perhaps traditional flick switches ?

14 - Clock - anyone not order this ??

15 - Still can't believe door handles are an option

16 - Finanly, I've not test driven one yet, but used to own an MG TF160 with factory sports suspension option, so can imagine what its like to bounce around the road - but to get to the point I'm 6 foot and whilst not exactly massive I'm no racing snake either - any problems fitting me and my size 11 feet into the thing ??

Hope people can get some replies to this, as it will make things easier when making the decisions.

Cheers
Rog

Roger,
I have a 1996 4/4 so here are my answers - my opinion only, I expect you may get other views!!!!

1) Standard seats are fixed, non reclining. I changed mine from these to reclining ones - much better and great to alter position a bit on a long ride. I wouldn't buy a car without folding / reclining seats.

2) Hood - mine is Everflex, PVC. Is still good, but it was little used in the car's early years. A friend, whose car is his daily driver is replacing his after 12 years. He is going with everflex again. Mohair looks great, but hard to clean if a bird "Blesses" it! Basically this is a personal choice thing, in my view.

3) Bonnet Strap - I don't think they add anything except scratches to the bonnet. They certainly aren't necessary. I don't have one!!

4) Wheels - I have chrome wires and just love the look of shiny wires!. I would have the stainless if I was getting a new car. They areNOT as difficult to keep clean as some say. Again this is a personal preference thing - I expect you may get into hot water with your description of the alloys!!

5) Radio. Without earbud speakers or the like which may or may not be illegal where you live, the radio is useless above about 45mph I rather like ambling down country lanes with Rachmanioff blaring!! for any other type of driving I turn it off! I have a Sony with a stalk like wired remote which I have mounted at the end of the Transmission tunnel. As the radio mounts underneath, it is impossible to adjust the radio without some sort of remote.

6) Yes the heater in my car is pretty good. Modern cars have a heated screen so the heater only heats underneath. I find it acceptable.

7) Treads - mine only has one - I am about to fit another.I would order two.

8) Beading in colour etc is mostly cosmetic and a personal choice. I have seen both - not sure either way.

9)A lot of people fit them - the stock lights are not great in my opinion - I am about to fit Xenon's as I prefer the look of the car without spots and hope this fittment will solve the problem.

10) Again a personal choice - look in the gallery on the MSCC site. Mine is Connaught Green - the best!!!!!!

11)While mine has the full bumpers, I actually prefer the overriders on the new wider cars. Again a personal choice.

12) I fitted an organ pedal to my car about a year after I got it - I find it a much better option and much more comfortable on a long run.

13) This one you'll have to check with a dealer. I do think that the Walnut veneer looks by far the best in a dash and is more in keeping with the ethos of the car.

14)Mine didn't have one and I found it annoying so I have fitted it!!

15) It's a Morgan!!!!!!!

16) Whatever you do -- go visit a dealer and test drive a car - You either love it or hate it - Just wear your narrowest shoes. I have size 10's and find that I have trouble with the narrow gap between pedals if wearing anything other than my narrow shoes - I actually went and bought a narrow shoe specially!

Again I would stress going to test drive a car - If you go to one of the dealers you can try a number of models and decide which is for you - you can also discuss the various options with them, I have found the few I have dealt with to be very helpful and more enthusiasts than car salesmen!

Good Luck!! PM me if you want any other details re radio or anything else.

Cheers!

Rog, I think Robbie has answered everything very well, so have little to add other than 'hello and welcome' and if you have any further questions, just ask!

IMHO....
1 - Seats - folding seats are handy if you're trying to fit larger objects behind the seats (eg boxes of fine french wine )

2 - Hood - personally i think mohair looks much nicer, less tacky and if you ever sell on your car people will definately take into account that you've got mohair weather equipment. pvc tends not to age so well.

3 - Bonnet Strap - don't bother. plus if you decide you dont like it, it'll be too late to change; they have a habit of scratching the bonnet.

4 - Wheels - if there's one thing you pay a little extra for, let it be the wheels. i would definately recommend getting s-steel wheels rather than painted ones (and they look really bling :cool: )

5 - i would suggest at least having the facility of a radio/cd player.

6 - heater's are awesome on these cars! nice and toasty =0 P

7 - if you have wide running boards then 2/3 looks best, if not i would still suggest having 2.

8 - agreed - wing beading is kinda pointless =0 P

9 - if you decide to get spotlights, i'd suggest fitting them yourself because you can fit tasteful ceebie spots without drilling the bodywork.

10 - yeh seen a 4 seater in ivory and claret - looks good!

11 - personally i prefer full width, but tis personal preference!

12 - organ pedal is better if you've got small feet

13 - yeh you can change the switches - tis possible.

14 - we don't have a clock in our car - why would you want to know the time whilst zooming along country lanes?!

15 - i know... =0 P

16 - no problem!

good luck in decision making!!!!

Hi

If you're getting a new car with a new-style hood you can access the rear space by lifting the rear of the hood. Be aware that (unless Morgan have recently changed it) the reclining lever cannot be operated when the seats are in the rear-most position so you have to slide the seat forward to alter the rake. This is not the easiest of things to do whilst driving. If you're 6'0" you'll probably have the seat back as far as it will go so I would advise you to try the fixed seats to see how they feel as you're unlikely to use the reclining mechanism once you've set it to a comfortable position.



Mohair definitely looks better. However it depends how often you're going to drive with the roof up. The mohair hood doesn't fold as easily as the pvc and, when folded, becomes marked by rubbing against the hood frame. (The surface becomes flattened and shiny). The front edge of the roof also gets covered in road grime which discolours it.



I don't think they fit 2 tread rubbers on a 4/4 as the running board isn't wide enough



You've can't omit the wing beading. It's a case of taking the standard coloured black beading or paying extra for body coloured.



Agreed



Couldn't agree more. If you like it after having driven it you'll be prepared to accept its idiosyncrasies.

As far as colour and appearance is concerned, I'd suggest trawling through the used cars for sale on the Morgan web-site so you can see what different coloured ones look like and whether you prefer with/without bumpers or spots

Hi Roger,

Excellent choice, whilst it is a while since I've had a trad I thought that I would let you have my 2p-worth.

1. As Robbie says, I would go for the folding/reclining seats.

2. The PVC one leaks along the seams, for me the mohair/everflex one is the best choice.

3. They all scratch the bonnet and wear the paint imo, including the sheepskin ones that harbours grit.

4. For me the Plus 8 type alloys look the best - the unsprung weight is much lower too.

5. I like a radio in a car and also the facility to connect an iPod is essential.

6. Robbie has covered this.

7. No treads with Defendall on the wings is the best solution for me; less unnecessary clutter.

8. No strong views either way.

9. They look good imho, again the Plus 8 look.

10. Two-tone paint, as you can see from my avatar I like it. Ivory/Claret sounds super. See this site for some other ideas.

11. Just over-riders..

12. Stick with the standard accelerator pedal.

13. Down to your choice really.

14. A clock is a good idea.

15. Don't have door handles, especially if you intend to drive it most of the time with the hood down. Again they clutter the profile and are not effective at keeping people out.

16. Do test drive one as this is the only way to find out.

The great thing about Morgan's is that you can personalise them to your own specification. In fact that is half the fun when ordering one, do enjoy the process and I am sure loads of other trad owners will be more than pleased to advise you too.

Cheers
Brian

Hi Rog

Excellent choice, as you will see there are as many different opinions on what makes the best mog, as there are mogs.

I note that you did not seem to considering a leather interior, this may affect resale value in the unlikely event that you would want to sell it.

I only have a couple of other comments, The MMC used to do a radio fitting kit, as an option, then you can fit your own choice of radio at a later date.

I would also offer a counter view of the other Brian. Get the door handles unless you think you will rarely use the hood. Trying to slide open perspex windows in the pouring rain whilst wearing gloves and no doubt in the dark with something under your other arm is not recommended! (how do I know this, <smile>) Don't bother locking the car though.

Oh, and if you look here http://www.simmonds.uk.com/HTML_picturegallery/index.html and scroll through the dozens of pictures, you will see at least two pictures of a burgundy and ivory Mog.

Brian
Jersey

Hi Roger

Since we’re all ‘piling in’, my thoughts…..

1) I found the standard seats really painful – the adjusting seats were for me a necessity, not an option.

2) I was told that the PVC hood would be more resilient in everyday use. Yes, it does seem to ‘weep’ a bit though, along the passenger side.

3) Again, cannot see the point of adding something which can only cause damage, and is not really useful

4) Agonised a bit over this myself. Decided I’d rather pay a bit extra (try haggling if buying new) up front, rather than thinking ‘if only’ later on. Had painted wheels been black, rather than silver, may well have gone with them.

5) Don’t miss not having one, and would hate to try to adjust it going along.

6) Very effective. Would really miss the heated screen, as well.

7) Went for two (but with slightly wider running boards), very much a matter of taste – just look at existing cars.

8) Again, a matter of taste. Pictures of other cars made the choice very easy for me.

9) Added a brace of spots – love the way that they can be aimed exactly where you want them, to pick up danger areas. Like the look, as well.

10) As 8) above – look at actual cars and pictures, and go with the heart.

11) I prefer the look of the full width; the brackets provide good mounting points for spots. Rear one ‘pushes’ the number plate up or down, so that can cause visual issues

12) Don’t even think about it now – has not proved a problem on long runs. Try a road test – and it can always be changed later on if necessary.

13) It would seem that there is pretty much no limit to the amount of customised options available – if you want it, and can pay for it, someone will do it for you!

14) Didn’t bother with a clock, easy enough to glance at a wrist watch if really necessary.

15) Quite.

16) To paraphrase ‘Geek-speak’, rather than RTFM, suggest you DTFC as soon as possible to get a handle on how the whole experience works for you. I’m a bit over 6’ and now heading in the direction of ‘portly’, but seem to fit into the new style trad chassis quite happily.

Whatever you decide, do enjoy the choosing process, and if in doubt, don’t save a few pounds now, only to regret a choice later….

Best of luck!

Hi Roger

as a recent first-time purchaser of a Morgan, and having done a lot of research, I'll try to answer, based on my experience of a recent one. My car is a 2005 reg 4/4 "Runabout" - basically a factory "themed" model to a fixed spec. If buying new you can spec virtually anything you like, or have it delivered to a dealer or specialist who will happily take your money to customise it! You can see mine here, it has a few nice changes from "standard":
http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showgallery&Number=14177

Bear in mind that the 4/4, while having the same cockpit as the +4 and roadster, has slightly narrower wings front and rear, and a narrower track. This is called a "narrow body" (confusingly, as the main body is the same) - some feel this gives better handling, while others prefer the wider look of the "wide body" which may be an option you can specify on a 4/4 (it used to be).

Your questions:

1. Seats - reclining just means you can alter the rake. Folding helps putting bags behind the seats, on the luggage shelf. Not essential in my view. My fixed seats (black leather) are comfortable.

2. Hood - as someone else said, bird crap on a Mohair hood is very hard to remove! PVC is the same as Everflex - and is perfectly adequate in my view. I believe the Everflex hood is included in the basic price, and the new style hood is relatively easy to operate. The speed of erection, and the weather sealing, are nothing like as good as your TT hood, be warned.

3. Bonnet strap - a bit of false "pastiche" I think, not necessary functionally, and it scratches.

4. Wheels - the "narrow body" cars also have narrower wheels - 5x15 as opposed to 6x15, again this is not a disadvantage in terms of traction or adhesion. So as a result you can't have the "standard alloys" on a 4/4, only wires or steel disc wheels with hubcaps (see the "Anniversary" models on the Morgan website) which you could buy and then replace with Minilites for example. The (rather nice) Morgan alloys are only available on the Roadster. Mine has stainless wires that I bought from the OEM supplier MWS wheels - these are much easier to keep looking good than chrome or painted.

5. Sound - I have a good Alpine radio/CD and it's OK except at high speed. Very inaccessible - you don't want to fiddle with it when driving (in fact you can hardly see it let alone reach) - and the Morgan doesn't lend itself to complex speaker installations so sound quality does suffer.

6. Heater - yes, and it's a fantastic, roasting heater that will keep you toasty on a freezing cold day with the top down. Don't worry about this aspect! As someone else said, the screen is electrically heated.

7. Treads - I have one each side, usually on the 4/4 only one is fitted. Some people also have armourfend or similar to prevent scratches on this area.

8. Wing beading (between the wing and body) is standard, you have to have it, and is black unless you choose otherwise. On my silver car black is a nice contrast anyway.

9. I do have spots on mine (by previous owner). But I can't agree about the standard lights being poor - I think they are excellent as they are H4 with a good big round reflector - better than many modern cars. You can easily fit high intensity bulbs too. The spots look good but aren't really essential.

10. Personally I like single colours. If buying new you can choose absolutely anything, they mix to your spec and can match any manufacturer's colours.

11. New 4/4s come with overriders, full width is extra. I prefer the former.

12. Organ pedal - haven't got one, don't really see the point, it doesn't make it go any differently.

13. Dash - the standard dash I believe is now like the "anniversary" model, a "retro" design with the speedo and tacho in the middle. I prefer the layout on mine. If I could have had a wood dash, I would have had one. As it happens I have the standard black vinyl, I am content with it for now. Simmonds and no doubt others can do toggle switches, but personally I don't see the point. You can even replace the stalk controls with dash-mounted if you wish. There is a German guy who does custom dashes and switches - M Kaufelt (google for it) - ££££

14. Clock - mine has no clock. Aren't they expensive! I have a watch, though...

15. Handles - mine has them - some people prefer the "cleaner" look of no external handles. They don't really give much security, as you can just lean in, or slide open the sidescreen, and open it from inside...

16. Driver size - I'm not tall (5'9") but there are plenty of tall owners. Try the car for size. I have size 10 feet and find no problem with foot space, but there is nowhere to rest your clutch foot in a car like this.

You will either love it or not. It has to be the former if the relationship is to have any meaning!

Cheers
Nigel