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Aug 24th, 2023
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 37
Just Getting Started
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Just Getting Started
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 37 |
Thank you Aldermog, my thoughts precisely and very well said.
In essence if you are not happy then don't buy or if you have, then sell, but most of us are more than content with our M3Ws, I am sure.
I am sick to death of all the negativity creeping in to this site and then seeing that some of the protagonists do not even own one!! OK maybe they have had a test run or not even that. Just like stirring the c--p.
Give it a rest guys; go to the dealer with your views and problems and if you use this site lets have a more positive approach.
I do wonder whether there are persons with vested interests behind a lot of this ...
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,959 Likes: 15
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,959 Likes: 15 |
I'd be interested to know the previous ownership background of all those that are not happy with the M3W or are concerned as past experience colours expectation. Not that I am that unhappy with the handling, I know it can be improved upon very much like the 4 wheelers and to some people both are fine. Current vehicles. BMW X6 & Mini Cooper S Previous vehicles. Range Rover Sport TDV8, Merc C180 Estate, Porsche Boxster S, Merc E220 Estate, Honda S2000, Merc C220, Subaru Forester Turbo. Lots of company vehicles before them. Plus driven more Hot Rods than I can remember (brothers) Lots of different handling vehicles some very good some bloody awful 
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,440 Likes: 8
Has a lot to Say!
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Has a lot to Say!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,440 Likes: 8 |
I've been reading through all the M3W posts, especially those where "suspension" is mentioned.
First, let me be clear: I don't own a M3W, but a Roadster. I've driven/ridden a lot of bikes and a couple of 3 wheelers, one a Guzzi based replica and the other, briefly, a M3W.
I feel the key issue here is expectation versus reality. I'd be interested to know the previous ownership background of all those that are not happy with the M3W or are concerned as past experience colours expectation.
When buying a Morgan I was moving from a modern motorcycle and a Mercedes SLK. I wanted an open car that gave me the same vintage bike experience as the New Triumph Bonneville, introduced in 2001, has given bike riders. It is a vintage ride using utterly reliable modern mechanical components. I sold the last Bonnie in 2005 as the ride was making my neck/arm painful, now I realize the first signs of a disc problem that has slowly got worse.
The SLK was a great, but soulless car with an appallingly hard ride. So my expectation of the Morgan's capabilities was coloured by my past and my desires.
Yes, I've modified the Morgan to make it ride and handle the way I like it, not because there is anything wrong with the basics. Morgan offer a finished product that cannot suit everyone and there are a raft of after market providers to help owners make the changes they want.
It is interesting that exactly the same happened with the New Triumph Bonneville. By 2004 there were a large number of after market suppliers offering upgrades: I was one of them (Jenks Bolts, now under different ownership). There are a number of very active Forums for New Bonneville Owners and there are a small minority who are really unhappy with ride and brakes. Almost all came from a modern sports bike ride and their expectation was not met by what was delivered.
Morgan is unique: they make vehicles that aim to provide a vintage experience but without the need to endure vintage electro-mechanical service levels. The "prince of darkness" has been banished from Morgans (Lucas Electrics for those who aren't old enough to know) and the cars are 1000% better for it.
Morgan also has a very limited R&D capability, they make what they make according to their plans and try very hard to please customers. It must never be forgotten that, unlike a large part of the Auto Industry they are profitable and not saddled by layers of debt. Possibly uniquely they have traded since 1909 without a break. Even Triumph Motorcycles didn't manage that, there was a break between the end of the "Cooperative" and John Bloor taking over.
Bottom line: Morgan cannot ever meet all potential and actual owners expectations and for those disappointed by their purchase and unable to change it to match their expectations the only solution is to move on. Sorry. There is a good deal of truth in this. I own a Roadster not a 3 Wheeler but the ownership experience is very similar. When you buy a Morgan you have to enter into a different mind set. It's a vintage car built by a small company that occupies a few Edwardian workshops and has a very limited research and development budget. The cars are correspondingly raw, perhaps under-developed in some areas and totally visceral - in a world of sterile, anodyne corporate Euroboxes, this is their charm. They are safe but you have to get used to their unique handling characteristics. If you can't get used to those characteristics you either modify the vehicle or move on. Expectation is part of the issue - you have to buy any Morgan with your eyes open with an understanding of what you are going to get.
David
2020 Roadster 3.7 Dove Grey.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 14,009
Member of the Inner Circle
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Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 14,009 |
"It is interesting that exactly the same happened with the New Triumph Bonneville. By 2004 there were a large number of after market suppliers offering upgrades: I was one of them (Jenks Bolts, now under different ownership)."
Ah yes.....Jenks Bolts! I well remember using them for mods to both my Bonnevilles. Yes, the Bonnies were somewhat old fashioned in their handling but that was part of their charm....it's not just looks that count! I have to admit I have a bit of a hankering for another...a nice companion to my Morgan.
Jays
Former Morgan owner. Gone but hopefully not forgotten!
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,538
Talk Morgan Sage
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Talk Morgan Sage
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,538 |
I had 3 Hinckly Bonnevilles - each one better than its predecessor thanks to product development . The bikes were all fine - but did not pretend or claim to handle like a sports bike - that's a different market sector! I also owned a Triumph Street Triple and have ridden many Speed Triples - these bikes have awesome handling - cos they are designed to do so!
So it's right that the M3W is viewed in a similar vein - I am sure that there are very very many happy M3W owners out there.i am not suggesting that the M3W is perfect - it is not - BUT the overall driving experience is still fantastic - for me:))))
Neil
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,553 Likes: 88
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,553 Likes: 88 |
I had 3 Hinckly Bonnevilles - each one better than its predecessor thanks to product development . The bikes were all fine - but did not pretend or claim to handle like a sports bike - that's a different market sector! I also owned a Triumph Street Triple and have ridden many Speed Triples - these bikes have awesome handling - cos they are designed to do so!
So it's right that the M3W is viewed in a similar vein - I am sure that there are very very many happy M3W owners out there.i am not suggesting that the M3W is perfect - it is not - BUT the overall driving experience is still fantastic - for me:)))) Totally agree. I also have a Bonneville (2010). Great fun bike. Had I wanted ace suspension, brakes and performance, I would have stayed with my Ohlins shod, Brembo braked Ducati 999s. I have owned a 4/4 for 8 years, but have only driven M3Ws twice. My opinion of the M3W? Huge fun, quirky, individual, but like the Bonneville, "it is, what it is"  Bud _________ 2003 - 4/4 Stanley
Bud
4/4 "Stanley"
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 870
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 870 |
And here we go again with the attempt to frame the problems (yes, they are problems) of bumbsteer introduced in the latter ones, as "vintage charm". I'm sorry, but the front suspension was designed better, but they chose to downgrade it to a worse. I don't need the "charm" of chain either, as the thing is belt driven, I don't need to sit in castor oil fumes either, and as it happens, it has a modern gearbox, a modern engine, a modern bevel box, and it was designed to have a modern suspension.
The bumpsteer was introduced, and on some it worse than others. The bevel box - a modern design by one of the industry leaders is whining a lot in some of them, and need I remind that at least Martyn who is the owner of a real vintage threewheeler says he doesn't suffer from bumpsteer? Seriously, there is nothing "vintage" about the design of the threewheeler, other than it is "retro". It was never designed with an old-school suspension, it was designed in CAD, with a modern suspension.
As for the bevel box, well, that too is a modern design, and with modern CNC machines, it shouldn't have to whine either. And since Morgan has something resembling a replacement service, they are at least realising that that is not how it's supposed to be. Ever heard a vintage threewheeler or four wheeler whine as much as some of the 5-speeder threewheelers out there? I haven't. Well at least not on a vehicle that wasn't very close to breaking down.
You're framing it so that people should accept subpar quality, simply because the vehicles in question is retro in style.
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,959 Likes: 15
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,959 Likes: 15 |
Bevel box has been an issue and MMC are changing it under warranty. What else would you have them do? They are already being supplied by one of if not the best bevel box manufacturer.
Bump steer is an issue to some not others, same as the trads suspension.
As for the downgrading on the shocks, I agree it more than likely would have been better if they didin't have to change supplier, but they did.
PaulJ had the Suplex shocks on his 1st car and the factory downgraded them to the Spax and he said in an earlier post it didn’t make much difference, I'm sure Paul can clarify this.
For those who do not like the suspension set up they can change it to either the RS&S (fatcat) design or await MMC / Aero design or come up with they own. Pictures are on the internet of what needs to be done.
The same as the trads, to re-quote "it is, what it is"
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,513 Likes: 8
Talk Morgan Addict
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Talk Morgan Addict
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,513 Likes: 8 |
It is quite right, that I did not notice any difference when the factory changed my Suplex for Spax, neither better or worse. Perhaps mine was the only Suplex car that didn't ride the bumps, I don't know.
I've been thinking about the Trad 4 wheeler suspension discussion and re-read it last night, and whilst it is in the best possible tone, I rather fancy that is because people who buy the 4 wheelers know that they are getting a car with rock hard ride and suspension that hasn't changed in over 65 years, so they can either accept it or do something about it, we Three Wheeler owners on the other hand thought we were buying a modern take on an old design, developed from the ground up to be as good as it can get, with all the knowledge now available to designers, well to anyone really. I was very impressed with the Autocar road test, who wouldn't be? So, when I took delivery of my car and found out that the handling was woefully short of my expectation, even with Suplex suspension, you can imagine how disappointed I was? I wrote to the factory, quoting part of the Autocar road test. From memory, I don't even think I was graced with a reply.
I'm on my second Three Wheeler now, exactly 12 months down the line from my first, and things haven't improved one iota in the handling department, so can you blame me for being a little annoyed. There are other improvements, but not that important one. It would be so easy to at least raise the steering arm on the uprights, so that there would have been less toe in and out in the first inch or two of bump and droop, but they couldn't even be bothered to do that.
So, yes it is what it is, but it isn't what it was supposed to be, hence a few of us making some noise. [I suspect those of us with cars which handle worse, or who notice these things, and care].
If those who are constantly telling us not to rock the boat because it makes for uncomfortable reading would like to ignore us please, then we can get on with bitching about the things that let us down and praising those aspects that give us joy. We do like to be even handed, it's not all bad.
Paul
[At last, I have a car I can polish]
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,959 Likes: 15
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,959 Likes: 15 |
Paul I was being an arse yesterday, we luckily live in a free (ish) country and you can bitch & moan about the handling as much as you want.
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