Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 Krazy Horse Dyno

Ian , I know absolutely nothing about the technicalities of measuring power output .

Looking at various bike magazines I have lying around , they all quote dyno measured rear wheel power in bhp ( and torque in lb.ft )
This may be incorrect but it seems to be how things are disussed/compared in the bike world .

As S B Mate suggests , I guess the main thing is to compare like with like .

And S B Mate , S&S engines produce a lot more power in other applications so it ought to be relatively easy to improve it .
As for increasing mpg by 10% I suspect I could achieve this with my right foot , but it wouldn't be as much fun !
Also baring in mind the mileage most M3Ws are doing the savings wouldn't amount to much ....

Btw , I don't feel my car lacks power , but it's always nice to have a bit more

It will be interesting to see how the fragile compensator copes with any increase in power. I have my suspicions that the engine map was detuned to protect the drivetrain after launch. I have also heard that the Mazda gearbox did not like the power pulses from the S&S engine early on in the development. The compensator/doughnut solved this for the gearbox but remains with question marks over the compensators longevity.

No proof of the detuning, but the pinking problem occurred suspiciously directly after a service and went away again after it received its new compensator at the factory.

I understand that, at least for the U.S. market, the motor is tuned very lean to pass California emissions. Tuned a little richer, post warranty, the motor will have a little more power. Also, S&S has a better intake system available for even more power.

Mine has had the new engine map installed to stop the pinking, unfortunately it appears to have taken the edge off the performance as well.
Wizards of NOS do a very nice 25 hp dry nitrous kit for bikes though…...

From the S&S website - an interesting document on tuning options and the power/torque increases.

http://www.sscycle.com/uploads/catalog/53/6%20Xwedge_WEB.pdf

There's been a tuning guide from S&S around for a while, but I've not seen one with the M3W on the front page before, so I guess this is an update. There was never any doubt that the engine can produce much more power if desired, the question is how the current M3W version has been detuned to run at only 75-85bhp (depending on where you look). My money is on a combination of all 3 key areas - intake (quite small, yet good for torque), exhaust (have you seen the size of the tiny holes in the 2 baffles in the tail pipes?!) and map (clearly very conservative). This is a 130-140+bhp engine all day long, given the requisite setup....

..... but whether or not the transmission overall will take that power, is another thing altogether. The compensator was a key part of the design to keep the big bang pulses from damaging the gearbox (which typically expect smooth power delivery in the MX5) and I suspect that this is the weak point, as we've all seen failures on our standard cars. The belt drive will take the power, as proven by countless tuned HD's and I suspect the BB will be OK too, despite its whining protestations.

What we need is someone to embark on a Stage 1 type tuning process for our cars so we can judge the easy gains available (always the most cost-effective) and how they might affect the reliability. My money is on a good increase being available and I'd probably stick to that were a kit to pop up onto the market. Although I've never left a car standard in my life (even my Panda 4x4 runs a Rotrex supercharger that lifts power from 59 to 112bhp on stock internals ), I don't plan to begin a development cycle again, as I just want to spend time driving rather than working things out with it in pieces on the garage bench....

I look forward to seeing how the market develops mind.

I suspect that u are Bang on right there R1NGA - and I do know that there were a lot of issues with the very first prototype cars being able to handle the sheer power of the mighty SnS engine.

For my part I have enough power - and I am a bit of a power freak - well I should say WAS with my bikes!

But I find the Mog is just right for my needs! Agree too that there would be easy power gains from better breathing/mapping etc and possibly quite cheap to do too.

For me the attraction of the M3W is the balance of power, grip and handling. With the single drive wheel it's traction limited so any horsepower gains may only end up spinning the rear wheel.

This view is based on test drives and may change when I get my hands on mine

the torque spikes from the S&S motor I recall being the biggest issue when they were first designing the M3W. Its not a matter of if the engine could produce more power as it most certainly could without any of the internals being changed out, its how you get the rest of the car to work with it.

First, more power will simply equate to more wheelspin (something currently ever-present in M3Ws. An even bigger factor is if the components between the engine and the wheel can handle it. The mazda sourced transmission would have no problem with the extra power as its overbuilt. The transmission is from a miata, but was initially built for a truck motor.

The real issue is all the pieces between the transmission and the wheel itself. Morgan was having all sorts of issues with pieces breaking early on in this section of the car and was probably a huge factor in the detune.

Before tackling an increase in power, first tackle and increase in reliability and ability to for the drivetrain to accept the extra power.

"Before tackling an increase in power, first tackle and increase in reliability and ability to for the drivetrain to accept the extra power." (Krod)

you are absolutely right!