Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 Once upon a time there was a Bevel Box...

The bevel box threads are getting low on the front page so I thought I'd share my take on one.

After hearing all the horror stories here, I figured I'd go ahead and change the gear lube in the bevel box on my ride. Prior to the change, I took it out for a spirited "bimble" on a set loop to get everything warm. My bevel box has never roared or growled and never given an indication of a problem...but those stories I read here kept haunting me.

Upon my return, I immediately put it up on jacks in preparation. As a passing thought, I grabbed my infrared thermometer from my powder coating gear to check the bevel box temp. It was 240F degrees! I checked the bottom-end on the engine and it was at 220F degrees. Not a good sign.

I pulled the drain plug and I had a few ounces of "liquid" lube come out immediately...but with time, goop came out. The drain plug magnet only had minimal metal and nothing alarming. With the level plug removed, I started blowing compressed air in to assist and encourage the goop out. At that point, I had a slight amount of blue smoke vapor coming out of the drain. Again, not a good sign. After moving all I could, I put a fan on the BB to cool it down. When just warm, I flushed the BB with brake cleaner and flushed a good bit more of the jet-black goop out.

I refilled the box with RedLine 75w140 synthetic gear lube and drove my set loop again at a spirited pace. Upon my return, I put it up on jacks and checked the bevel box temp...this time it was reading between 180-185F degrees depending on where on the box I took the temp. I still got around 220F degrees on the engine bottom-end as expected but just wanted to confirm my readings. Again, I dumped the lube which was still smut black.

I refilled and repeated my loop at the same pace. Upon my return, the measured box temp was 160-165F degrees. Again, I dumped the lube which was still smut black.

I refilled and repeated the loop. Upon return, the measured temp was 160-165F again and the engine bottom-end was still in the 220F range. I dumped and refilled.

I repeated the loop with an extra dose of spirit but this time with a 200 lb. passenger. Upon my return, the box readings were, again, 160-165F and looked like it had improved all it was going to. I bought plenty of gear lube so I plan to change the bevel box lube every couple of hundred miles until it looks like normal drained gear lube.

The "Morgan" lube must have had some kind of additive in it or it may have been some sort of preservative for shelf life and not actual gear lube. I use molybdenum in my Moto Guzzi final drive and it doesn't look like this mess when drained. Gears need lube to "climb" them during operation and I suspect the goop phase was getting pushed away from the gears rather than climbing. Based on the minimal metal found on the drain plug and lack of metallic particles in suspension in the "lube", I hope I've dodged the bullet but only time will tell. I have good faith in Quaife after dealing with their vintage transmissions for decades and knowing what they are building for motorcycle engine-driven cars (not Morgans). I don't think Quiafe is stupid when it comes to gear intensive items...but there seems to be a disconnect somewhere in the process.



Once you get beneath the beautifully executed aluminum bodywork, these cars are not a mechanical work of art. The worst gear lube on any shelf is better than what was in the bevel box...you couldn't do any worse without trying. Geez.

After the lube change, I did an oil and filter change. I was in the process of dropping the feed and return lines from the crankcase...the bolt of the piss-poor clamp on the return side was broken and half missing. The bolt of the feed clamp was bent and well on its way to breaking. Cheap junk. This on a car that cost the same as a 2014 base model Corvette that has 460 hp and will run 180+ mph and gobs of technology. We M3W owners can't get a break. The concept of the M3W is stellar but in reality, its the most poorly executed mechanical thing I've ever seen come off a production line anywhere at any time. At half the price of MSRP, it would still be grossly over-priced based on technical merit. If I were a Morgan engineer (even though the accounting department may have influenced it), I'd be hanging my head in shame. I'm sure the proto-types had bugs but this is what they went to production with? I can't think of a thing on the car that I consider neat or trick in the way they approached it or anything on it that works great. These cars could have been the bomb...instead of the grenade they've turned out to be.

I'm going to fix this SOB if I have to rebuild it from the ground up and that's probably what it will take. Good thing I have my clear and concise Morgan Three Wheeler Service Manual handy.

Z

It'a a damn shame and outrage ! The more you look, the more you find ! Not at all what I expected !

Watching your ministrations closely ...

I think to réfresh the bevel box by under with à little "escope"
I found it is warn after many miles

Nice one Zacky , keep em coming.

"If I were a Morgan engineer (even though the accounting department may have influenced it), I'd be hanging my head in shame."

A little bird mentioned to me some while ago, that there were more stylists than engineers working for the company. Now, I've no idea if that is true, but I think we can draw our own conclusions from the Three Wheeler?

I mentioned in another BB thread that it would be very useful if our 'factory representative' Mark[?] could actually explain what goes into the bevel box and why, in their opinion it gives so much trouble. I mean, even one that seizes solid is one too many.

PaulJ - have you or anyone else seen any official paper or Service Bulletin from Morgan on the issue of oil change in the bevel box. My Swedish dealer has not said anything in 2 years about this, and my instruction book says nothing. I am going on a long trip to Norway next week and would not like to add something to my long list of breakdowns.
Dealer closed 2 weeks due to holiday.

Prépare a regulator with the spare of change if it is not fixed directly on the chassis. Two were broken last week in le mans

Interestingly, my dealer changed the bevel box oil at the first service and at every subsequent service. Now at 11.5K miles with it still working albeit a bit noisy though not screaming.
That should be the kiss of death!

The technology is still wood based!

It attract real motorheads to some place where they will spent more money and be willing to fix and upgrade what the factory thought would work to sell out the door. The only problem is there are only so many motorheads with this kind of cash and have the willingness to put up with this amount of simple fixable issues which could have been fixed with the first 100 units.
Hello Morgan better be listening.

It's just the coolest thing to ride around in which is it's saving grace....
until someone makes a competive flying machine!

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to stir the pot among owners nor indicating anyone of us are "un-wise" for the purchase a M3W as I am in the same boat. On the other hand, I would stir Morgan's pot vigorously if given the opportunity.

I think the common thread between us all is that we all were/are in quest of fun and at our suspected ages, fun doesn't come around as much as it use to or as cheap as it use to. And we all were separated from our substantial, hard-earned money in our endeavor to grin from ear to ear. The best I'm getting out of mine at this point is a smirk on occasion and that's when I don't dwell on the under-lying problems too much or get too far from home in it. At the selling price, we all know that there was substantial money built in to the selling price for R&D and testing which we obviously did not get. To add insult to injury (at least on this side of the pond), the warranty isn't worth a pinch of sh:t which drives up the cost of the hit I've taken on the car. I suspect it is harder for Morgan to put off customers with car issues when they live in close proximity of Malvern but seem to have no qualms in doing so to those on distant shores.

On my "clapped-out" compensator (with a staggering 1,600 miles on it), the best offer I got out of Morgan on the repair equated to $50USD (1/2 hour shop time to put a Band-Aid on it) which would also involved a 1,500 mile round trip to and from the dealership twice. It's not like I broke the car...it was broke as delivered. There is no light at the end of the tunnel as far as I can see.

When I see someone posting that they made a successful 1,800-2,000 mile round trip and proudly made it back home in one piece in a virtually brand new, $50K+USD car and treat it like they successfully scaled the summit of Mt. Everest, something is wrong with that picture on so many levels. I am happy for the owner who is proud (or more likely surprised) but still it shouldn't be considered a feat of great proportions. It does require an adventurous soul to head out in a long trek in a M3W. Sadly, it's not the trip that is the adventure but the mode of transportation.

If Morgan rectified all the problems that we all are too familiar with in the 2015 model, where does that leave us that purchased the previous models in such good faith?

As a business owner, if I were in Morgan's position as it relates to the M3W, I would spend whatever money necessary to get Pete Larsen in-house until I had satisfied my previous customers which in turn, would satisfy my future customers. We are the future of the M3W and if a potential customer exercises due diligence and finds this forum, they might opt for something else fun. To me, the Polaris SlingShot is ugly as sin...but I would bet my bottom dollar that it will be technically correct when offered to the public. My new Indian (a Polaris product)has a 5-year unlimited mileage warranty...and guarantee a trade-in value of 70% of MSRP for three years. You can make these kind of offers when you do your homework. If the engineering is sound and QA/QC is adhered to, it's really very little risk to them but inspires confidence in the consumer. That and the day the Indian hit the market, a comprehensive Service Manual was available to the general public for $140. The first thing I noticed on the SlingShot (besides being ugly) was the inclusion of a single-sided swing-arm in the rear...which is the correct but not cheapest (which excludes Morgan) approach to the vehicle. My bet is that the SlingShot will perform as advertised and have ugly styling....the opposite end of the spectrum as compared with the M3W. A good looking car doesn't mean much when you are having to walk down the shoulder of the road.

I feel that a company deserves the opportunity to make things right by those they have wronged or when something slips through the cracks but I certainly don't see that taking shape in any form or fashion. And it happens to reputable companies.... http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1587316861-post1787.html I put more miles on this car in one weekend that I have the Morgan since January.

At this point, its all a big inconvenience and good money spent after bad but when a fatality or two occurs due to historically faulty equipment (locked up bevel box, etc.), the complexion of the situation will take a sharp and dramatic turn for the worse. And it won't take Sherlock Holmes to determine this flagrant neglect of sound engineering practices has been prevalent since it hit the public market.

I think the M3W future is quickly approaching a fork in the road. And though we have been rendered virtually helpless with our car issues, we may have a significant influence on which fork they are forced to take by just telling the truth about how little respect Morgan has given those of us who trusted them. They say "a fool and his money are soon separated"...I don't think we are fools. I think we have been conditioned in a civilized world of manufacturers adhering to standards or at the very least, being concerned with legal ramifications. Unfortunately, Morgan is defying the logic of what we've come to expect from corporations (especially a well established one) and are pushing us into the realm of looking like and feeling like fools against our will of which I'm taking a dim view. You take a scam artist and put him in a Bill Blass or Cartier suit, he's still a scam artist.

I would like to officially retract a statement I made earlier about "engineers hanging there head's in shame". After some thought, I reflected on a situation where I worked for a company where I and others within the company knew the best resolution to an equipment problem but upper management, in effort to maintain or elevate profit margins, would not allow the proposed and proper fix due to cost. It's not that us guys on the floor didn't know any better, it was just a matter of not having management support. I was dead wrong for posting that and apologize for condemning anyone without a factual basis.

Sorry to be such a ray of sunshine here but you guys are the only folks that I am familiar with that can truly related to life with a M3W. For better or worse, we are all in it together. On a lighter note, I hope you all have a pleasant weekend.

Z