Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 Noisy compensator

Mine is compensator 2 with grease
More than 10000 miles And cross fingers " no noise"

The clutch throw out mechanics have no bearing on what compensator one would have. The throw out bearing and fork is located on the downstream side of the clutch and flywheel. Although most modern cars with hydraulic clutches now use a small slave cylinder mounted around the transmission input shaft support rather than the old style fork with an external slave cylinder.

I would see no reason to upgrade the mechanics of the throw out bearing because of the comp upgrade. The fork style has worked well and there is no load on it more or less regardless of the motor etc.

For grunting around at lower rpms, which the S&S is very good at doing, a heavier flywheel tends to increase the drivability for cruising, but the light flywheel does come into play when looking at performance. When looking at the v-twin motors, most of the crank assemblies are 30 plus pounds. I would guess this to be lighter than the Miata 1.6L or 1.8L motor usually used in front of the 5 speed you use. Now the S&S I believe uses a forged one piece crank and uses automotive type connecting rods versus the Harley three piece crank with the twin straddle type rods on the same crank pin centerline. The S&S may be lighter than the Harley version, but both still only had the alternator rotor as an external flywheel, so they were overall a lot lighter in rotating mass than the way the M3W is setup. But still I would believe that the extra flywheel weight would be a plus for driving and not a negative.

I'm going to speculate a bit here, but if you had a lighter flywheel in a M3W, I would believe that more of the crank pulses would be transmitted through the trans and into the driveshaft and BB. The heavier flywheel, in my mind, would work to dampen the pulses and keep them in front of the flywheel and in the compensator; thus allowing less ratcheting of the transmission innards.

Maybe with a 6 speed and lower gears a lighter flywheel would be beneficial, like in hill climbs etc.

Just don't see the M3W ever having a crotch rocket type performance. Although Harley has done wonders with the V-Rod in their NHRA drag racing as they usually trounce the Suzuki high revving competition.

The Centa works similarly to the Harley style comp as it stores and releases energy pulses from the motor in a somewhat smoothed out manner. The Harley comp has the Bellville springs with the ramps and the Centa uses inner pockets on the shaft and matching pockets in the housing with four rubber logs forced inside each of the pockets. The squishing of the rubber logs back and forth does the same as the ramps pushing back and forth against the spring pack. But theoretically there are no wear parts on the Centa or metal to metal, unless of course the four rubber logs chomp up and disintegrate.

I've not seen any "assembled" pictures of the Centa comp, but I can imagine the shaft being splined and bolted to the crank and the end of the shaft just terminates as "X" inches. The housing I see bolting up and being perfectly centered on the motor side of the flywheel; hence the possible need for a new flywheel with the Centa. I then see the four rubber logs being held in the four shaft pockets near the motor end and the trans and motor are then slid together feeding the four logs on the shaft sliding into the Centa housing. Once they are about in, the rubber log retainer would be removed and the motor and trans would then be mated up solid. The shaft would be perfectly centered within the perfectly center housing with the four rubber logs as the only thing connecting the motor with the trans flywheel. It sounds like a great design and should be very trouble free. I'm sure that from what I read on the Centa website that they have decades of experience and providing the "right" durometer of rubber would be no issue for them.

Sorry guys, I'm just rambling here as if I were talking to someone and he's not answering me right back...

I just don't see the M3W as a high performance vehicle. I would think that a Polaris Slingshot with a "like" size motor would blow the doors off the M3W, but I could be wrong; as I am most of the time...

Dan,

How goes it?

While gone to Denver, I was notified my Centa bits have shipped...after a 5 month wait...which was long enough that my Bevel Box is on it's way out.

At any rate, I may be able to further elaborate on the Centa soon.

Even with warranty, it's all on my dime as expected.

Z

Z, how's the Iron Butt?

Everything's fine up in the St Louis area. Just a little warm with a heat index of about 110 degress the past few days. Rode the old '76 FLH yesterday and worked up a good sweat while riding.

I hope your Morgan holds together until you get your chang parts.

I still can't imagine that doing the Centa change will take all the time all the dealers are quoting. I think with your background we should see some hours cut from what they claim.

Hope you had a great ride.

Later dude.

Dan,

I have a feeling the Centa swap is going to drag out going in for the first time...probably will go smoother and gain speed after I've been in and out of it the second or third time. I'm not going to rush the first event as I want to take my time and check hose and harness routing, inspect chassis, mounting tabs, etc. as I've already corrected what was visible and only wonder what I'm not seeing. Without a service manual, I'm sure there will be some Easter Egg hunting. Guess I could generate my own service manual since there doesn't seem to be any other source. While at it, I want to evaluate the charging system as I plan on drawing on it (heated riding gear for winter)...one step closer to being bullet-proof and I want to approach it as if I'm eventually going to have what I bargained for. Sometimes, I can close my eyes and see a Morgan that can take more than I can give it...but for now, it's just an illusive vision.

The Iron Butt event was good. They call it their "international" meet. It was more of a seminar on different aspects of the "big rally" (11,000+ miles in 11 days....routing, bonus points, sleep management, hydration, farkling, etc.)along with some fun. There were riders from all over the country and Canada. Many flew in from over-seas. No matter where in the country you go for the IB events, you see a lot of the same faces. The Iron Butt community is prolific as it pertains to covering ground. As weird as it may sound, the riding style is addictive. When I was younger, it was hotrod motorcycles....I switched gears in to doing long distances instead of warp speeds. That and it helps me utilize my few days off from work more effectively as now I'm not burning up my valuable time off just getting somewhere and back. I went to Denver via Albuquerque, NM, up the Million Dollar Highway (Durango, Silverton, Ouray, Montrose...to Grand Junction then headed east back into Denver). On the way home, I needed to stop in Arkansas to setup a party/ride to eat event. I came through Wichita and spent the night just north of Joplin...next day I was seeing 103*F coming through Missouri. When I get the detail put together on the RTE, I'll forward them to you...it will be just south of Harrison, AR on Scenic Byway 7...an easy ride for you.

I like to travel (keep my foot in the road) and had visions of doing something similar with the M3W but that hasn't gone so well so far. I can't just blindly ride off into the sunset pretending everything is going to be fine. I suspect the SlingShot will do it with ease but it sure as hell won't be as cool as doing it in the M3W. I'm going to take out my Morgan anger and frustration on the Slingshot just as soon as I can get my grimey hands on it. I, also, suspect that riding in the SlingShot will be like riding in a Jeep as compared to the low seating position of the M3W which I like.

With my Morgan like it is now. I don't pick where I'm going in it...I just try to stay on roads that are smooth enough not to beat the chassis to pieces, I stay away from traffic and any stop & go stuff, I try to stay on fast enough roads where I can keep the throttle pinned, drive train loaded and rpms up. That limits where I can go in it but its good enough to keep me interested in it. Above 45 mph, it does okay...it's the lower speed stuff (that you can't avoid forever) where it's weaknesses rear their ugly heads. Mine feels more sanitary at 75 mph than it does at 35 mph. In a nutshell, it has a chassis & suspension that is happier at lower speeds and a drive system that is happier at higher speeds...one doesn't compliment the other. Our road quality is not that great in this part of the country so keeping the slack out of the system isn't always a good option.

After this evenings ride, the bevel box general temp was about 160*F...the front pulley for the belt was around 120*F, the temp in the bearing area at the back of the input shaft was around 170*F and the bearing area of the box at the output shaft was around 175*F (hottest measured temp). It has fresh RedLine HeavyDuty Shockproof gear lube in it for now but I'll be swapping back to RedLine 75w140 after one more cycle with the Shockproof. I drive the M3W in a manner to try to stretch it's life out and try to stay out of the back-lash of the BB. It's not dead yet but suspect it's got one foot in the grave. I still haven't heard back from the dealer on a replacement box which I will order as soon as I get feedback. I don't have any reason to believe the new BB will be any quicker delivery than what I saw on the Centa. Order early and order often, I suppose. I prefer to have parts on the shelf before the existing ones give up the ghost.

I guess if I only had one toy and it was a M3W, it would be a gearhead's dream. I'm still bum-fuzzled over what I got for the money I spent. I spend a lot of money on other toys and don't have any remorse as they work as advertised. The M3W was the same price as a base model C7 Corvette with 455 hp, traction control, stability control, 7-speed manual transmission, variable fuel mapping, cruise control, air conditioning, a removable roof, G-force meters, gobs of instrumentation...and Chevrolet encourages you to take it to the track. They are on the opposite ends of the "bang for your buck" scale...but the M3W is retro sexy. The Corvette and the SlingShot are a glimpse into the future and the M3W is a glimpse into the past which is equally appealing to me.

I'll keep you posted on the ride date (mid-Octoberish).

Z

Zack, glad to hear all went well.

I'm in gorgeous Evansville IN for a couple days trying to setup a machine with some of our sub-assemblies, but apparently not the important ones. These are single serving 12oz plastic bottles blow molded neck to neck. Our trimmer separates them and finishes the neck for sealing and then capping.

See www.lectroengineering.com and go to MTM and then trimmers. The 2025 model is similar to this clone of our very old model this company brought over from one of their Poland plants.

Sorry to digress.

Sounds like you have a plan on parts for your M3W.

I'm interested to hear about your Slingshot, as I'm sure everyone else here is too.

Have a great week.

M3W porn...maybe slightly incestuous...but porn, none the less.











Z

Works for me

I can't speak on behalf of the Centa cush-drive but I have been using LoveJoy type couplings on oilfield equipment drive lines for many years and its surprising how long they last...over a decade in many cases.

Almost every motorcycle on the road has some sort of rubber-based cush-drive. Old Triumphs had 6 rubbers and a three prong "spider" in the clutch hub leveling out the pulses. Old Nortons (and many Asian bikes) have rubber cush drives behind the rear sprockets. Typically, they're worst enemy is age...again, usually decades before they get hard and start disintegrating.

Many people that have built "bitsa" bikes (bits and pieces of several different bikes used to build one "custom" bike) and they make the mistake of using a engine/transmission/clutch without a cush-drive along with a rear wheel without a cush drive, the transmission dies in record time before their very eyes.

I'd rather take my chances with the rubber compensator than mechanical. Ramps, rollers and Bellville washers have a finite life too especially when run dry.

My only concern with the Centa is reports of new vibrations. I think I'm going to build a balancing fixture to see if I can improve on the "as delivered" balance of the unit before installing it.

As far as future rubber replacement when needed, although it won't be fun, it certainly won't be as bad as the initial conversion from the Bellville style compensator.

It's easy to pick a Christmas present for your friends that own M3Ws...compensators, bevel boxes, steering geometry kits, rubber bobbins, timing belts, rectifier/regulators, stators, belts & sprockets, tools, floor jacks, hand cleaner, henways....

Speaking of which, what I'd like for Christmas is to run the M3W division for one year. Their per unit profits may go down slightly but we'd offset it in the volume of reliable units sold.

Z

I am guessing the Centa drive is run dry , with no grease etc like the previous compensator ?
It does have moving parts so is there any ongoing maintenance ?