Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 Bevel Box...Nature of the Beast

Moto Guzzi, BMW, and more lately Honda and some of the other Japanese brands have been making bevel boxes for a good few years. Some of these bikes have engines that develop over 100 hp. The bevel drives, if well maintained, typically last over 100,000 miles, do not get hot, do not whine, and do not fail.

Why the Morgan/Quaife bevel drive should give so many problems is a mystery to me.

I agree, this is a mystery that MMC should be taking very seriously and resolving in conjuction with Quaife.

And, as stated in another thread, there should not be a situation where Quaife refer us to MMC, and MMC refer us to the dealer.
Surely, the first people to know the reason for the unreliabilty / noise must be Quaife (the manufacturers and so called experts) and the dealers would be the last people to know.

Comming from a Honda GoldWing history I am surprised that the BB can be an issue at all. My bikes had cardan drives and problems were completely unknown. All bikes provided more than 100 hp and also tourque was higher than on the Moggy. I always rode the bikes on hot wheels and mostly the on-board-radio was the loudest noise I heared. More than 100k miles experience on different GoldWings...
It's a shame that MMC is unable or unwilling to solve the problem.

Honestly, I think my M3W was/is a victim of the goop. I have several 40+ year old Quaife gearboxes in motorcycles that still perform fine. I contacted Quaife directly 8 months ago detailing the problems I have and tried to source a BB direct. I got a nice long detailed response from them but the bottom line was that they manufacture for Morgan and couldn't deal with me direct. They did, however, say that they would assist me with Morgan should I need backup. I have the utmost respect for Quaife as they compare to Morgan. Being state-side, I wasn't able to contact anyone with Morgan that gave a damn. It took me 6-7 months to accumulate all the parts for a Centa upgrade as the "kit" was slowly piece-milled together. I have been nagging the dealerships to source me a new BB at my own expense...5 months later, I still haven't been quoted a new BB. I'm sure if and when I do get a quote, it will be 6 months before I have anything in my hands. It is my intent to do all my own wrenching because, frankly, I don't trust anyone associated with Morgan as corporate steers the dealerships into doing what is best for Morgan and not the consumer.

The dealership indicated my BB may be covered under warranty but I've been put off long enough now that the warranty (such as it was)has now lapsed...as if I didn't see that one coming. I didn't want to go the warranty route anyway as he indicated a possible BB rebuild and would require two 1800 mile trips to the dealership adding insult to injury. I wanted a new box at my own expense where I could check it out completely before installation and keep the old box for a future rebuild/back-up box as I believe they will be a consumable item for the M3W.

I had a vision of morphing the Polaris BB and swingarm into the M3W but under closer review, it is entirely too wide to be an option. I could care a less about the noises transferred through the chassis as long as the box is working correctly and not self destructing. As a life-long gearhead, I don't have the option or ability of driving it and pretending like nothing is wrong. I'm not in denial...I just need parts....for my $60K car with less than 4k miles on it. I've ponied up for the Centa at my own expense, the Empire kit at my own expense and will cheerfully lay out the cash for a new BB to fix Morgan's short-comings. Morgan is a dead-beat dad...and as a general rule, I have trouble praising anyone that knowingly screwed me.

Guess while looking on the bright side, since my M3W is mechanically handicapped and unfit for use, it reduces the possibility of a chassis cracking issue. I'm waiting until I can accumulate all the parts before tackling this project. When I have everything I need, I'm pulling the body off the chassis to fix any other evils hidden beneath the bodywork. I will most certainly change out the alternator and rectifier with quality items while at it. Not to be too harsh on Morgan, S&S isn't on my Christmas list this year either. It's a damn shame that the only reliable item on the whole rig is the Japanese transmission.

Once I receive the Slingshot to park next to the M3W, then I'll have a three wheeler that is pleasing to the eye that won't reliably get me across town and one that is ugly as hell but pleasingly reliable to drive and that performs...and at less than half the price. The dealership's demo Slingshot already has more miles on it than my M3W in just a few short weeks and no telling how many different drivers who, probably like me, ran the hell out of it. Guess the Slingshot has knocked a scab off a wound that won't fully heal.



Z

Charles makes a good point and regardless of the actual figures his calculation gives a good order of magnitude for the heat generation.

It's never going to run cool so the question should be whether the oil used is suitable for sustained running at the operating temp.

My late 2013 BB is acceptable so I think it is OK.

Just off to touch some wood now

I called Quaife about my BB last year...they clammed up immediately refused to discuss anything ..even hypothetically, and referred me back to MMC.

It's never going to run cool so the question should be whether the oil used is suitable for sustained running at the operating temp.

My late 2013 BB is acceptable so I think it is OK.

Just off to touch some wood now
[/quote]

It will never run cold...but the SlingShot BB is cool enough after all day use and a good hard run to lay and keep your hand anywhere on it. It does get warm but not egg-frying hot like my M3W box.

I think my late 2013 BB would have been fine if Morgan didn't put the "snake oil" in it to disguise another perceived issue that wasn't really an issue. Robbed of lube (since it turned to gel and pushed away from the gears), I'm sure the gear faces are rough as a cob and the bearings chattered in their races...no matter what lube I put in it now, the damage is done and it will generate more heat than one with slick surfaces in it. Using an infrared thermometer, my bevel box ran 30-40 degrees (F) hotter than the S&S crankcase after a hard run. There is no way that can be misconstrued as being right.

Though some M3W seem to be better than others, I don't think any of them are necessarily right as compared to industry (any industry) standards or any other motorized vehicle...one-off or mass produced.


Z

We need to consider the temperature of the 'cooling' air running past the bb.
On my 12 hour drives down france the whole transmission tunnel would get hot. That is air from the engine. Quite nice to warm your hands and heats up the sleeping bag.

That warmed air goes down the transmission tunnel instead of atmospheric air passing the bb.
I think the ss is water cooled?
Perhaps this is not relevant.

I have given this high temp. running some thought and over the winter lay up will try and fabricate an NACA type of air duct into the floor pan to funnel cold air from under the car up and over the BB.

Have a look at the floor pan of a Lotus Elise MK1

Nuff said.

Agreed ! So far I've been lucky, my dealer saw the light and my BB was de-gooped early on ...