Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) New Trad suspension set up

Greased the suspension today and cleaned everything up afterwards observing that the springs are suplex and the shocks are spax. Now as the trads have had roller bearings, decent shocks and suplex springs for some time does anyone know the current set up because I am actually pretty happy with the front suspension on my car.
Following on from this, and this may bit somewhat provocative, how on earth can suplex charge what they do for replacement springs, shocks and roller bearings when the standard car has virtually the same parts ?

This topic really is a can of springs! But seriously the best comfort ride Morgan I have driven thus far was the Williams Plus 4 Sport with Suplex front end, but would I have it a car for track days and fun run hill climbs, probably not. I still want to drive a Roadster with Suplex and see if I can justify the outlay or not.

Suplex are spring manufacturers. It would not surprise me if they are now providing improved springs for the current production.

The Suplex Front Suspension Refinement Kit includes top and bottom springs, spacers for different ride heights, adjusters for different front end weights, an internal rising rate spring, and very sophisticated Bilstein dampers. The bearings are included in the kit because it is a universal kit that also covers damperblade cars.

Nice to see that they are providing the standard springs for the new cars and I expect that they are doing an excellent job of it.

I think the front suspension setup on the newer cars is much better than previously, so that the improvements offered by the Suplex refinement kit are not so obvious.

But owners of older cars, where the rebound spring is in compression at static ride height, will experience a much greater improvement in the compliance of the front end. For me, I was particularly impressed by the performance on rough potholed roads, of which we have a fair amount in Gloucestershire. On smooth tarmac the improvement is not nearly so noticeable.

Is it worth the asking price? Only the customer can make that judgment. I was happy to spend the money, but only had to pay for the kit.

I think that Hamwich makes the key point!

Any car where the rebound spring is loaded at static ride height, when loaded with 2 people, will be vastly improved by the Suplex kit.

On a 2009 Roadster, with its 205 profile tyres, it made a very significant difference, particularly to low speed steering load when parking.

I had it fitted by Williams, along with brake reaction bars and AVO Rear shocks. All in all it made the ride acceptable and considered it good value.

Purely for balance it might be worth noting that several people are not in favour of the feel of the car after they have had the Suplex system fitted and have had it reverted to standard. Personally I don't like the additional initial roll on turn in, I drove the developers car and it felt very different, for sure it smooths out bumps but even he agreed there is more initial roll until the spring assister (rate riser in Suplex terms) comes into force. If you think about it it really has to have more roll, basic physics will show if it's softer (Suplex main springs have been measured as having a spring rate of between 100 and 120) it has to roll sooner and more when the spring becomes loaded. MMC are now fitting a common spring across the range but prior to this my 08 +4 for example had 120 springs so that's where the feel difference is (I now have 140 springs in it).

Some will claim that they have never had higher initial roll on turn in, I have no idea how this was measured, did they measure turn rates, steering input angle and speed or is it just a 'feel' thing, and that what this is really all about, if the driver feels that the car is more comfortable and does not roll and gives more confidence then it's well worth it. It takes a brave owner to say I up have just spent around £1,000 to have something fitted, more if you also have new kingpins at the same time, and it's altered the car and I don't like it.

As I have said before it suits some very well and that's fantastic, some are not so keen and they have gone a different route. The video posted on here of the front suspension (I think it was a Roadster) would have convinced me had I not already decided, much is made of the rebound spring being in contact and adding to the main spring rate, however all I will finish with is 2 points, go and lift the front of your car by hand and check the rebound spring to see if it's under tension, now push the front down and check again.....you will almost certainly note the car alters through 'stiction' and stays almost where you put it, how on earth can you measure if the rebound is under load? Finally watch that video and you will see there is almost always free space above the rebound spring which to me makes a bit of a nonsense of the argument over the rebound having an effect in anything other than the small amount of time it's under load. Others will disagree I am totally sure ;-)

Colin

I agree that the "setting" of the rebound spring does seem to change. I spent ages getting mine to the "correct" set points at static, but each time you go and road test it, the setting will change (and not always in the direction you think will, which fits with "stiction" being unpredictable) ) so it is a long and tedious job. I think I have a found a relatively good compromise now, where my rebound springs appear to be in "slight contact" most of the time, but the feel is good , and the ride is vastly improved. I am sure that it could be "optimised" but I just don't have the inclination to spend more hours under the car for an minot incremental improvement.

I agree it won't suit everyone , but to me the job was well worth it, and I am now much happier driving down poorly surfaces roads feeling that I am not crashing and graunching into every pothole , and the suspension is absorbing part of the load. It is also more comfortable to drive over long distances as the compliance leads to a more relaxing experience to the occupants. The steering effort seems easier as well , but this is almost certainly the bearing as opposed to damper blades.

I don't disagree Andy, that's why I said it suits some and not others. Yours was difficult to set up and as you know it was done twice (for those that don't know I fitted Andy's Suplex system)and even then you said you were out adjusting it back and forth to get the right adjustment. That's what I meant about the stiction present partly because of the design of the suspension but not least because of the KPI (King Pin Inclination) that makes it very difficult to get a base setting where the car returns to a static point each and every time. For those wanting a simple experiment roll you car to a halt, measure from the underside of the front panel or bumper to ground and now stop with a dab on the brakes and measure again.....two different readings, two different gaps or preloads on the rebound spring! No wonder you struggled. What you have reached is a setting that suits your cars weight and your drive requirements and that's brilliant but to try and replicate that, for the average owner, on cars of different weights is where the challenge lies. For someone who likes to play with their cars and get grubby as you and I both do, its not an issue, for some its something to consider that's all.

By the way Andy, after I fitted yours I got dragged into some measurements with another Suplex kit, the purchaser wanted to know how far the cars suspension moved before the rate riser spring came into contact. we measured the static stub axle height (given that it changes we took several readings and averaged) and then the space above the stub axle at static could be calculated, from this deduct the rate riser unloaded height and you arrive at between 27-31mm before the rate riser comes into effect. In other words that's the amount of movement over which the softer main spring absorbs the bumps until the rate riser starts to take effect and as that's progressive the rate increases accordingly. That's where you get your smoother ride feel over road undulations but also what causes the initial increase in roll on cornering.

I certainly agree that they are tricky to get exactly right. Kevin Vernon and I spent 3 hours or more doing mine, checking and adjusting before we were happy with it. I'm also running mine with the spacer below the stub axle, giving a low ride height. Everyone I know who has been unhappy with their setup had it the other way round, with the spacer above the stub axle.

I definitely experience an increased roll on initial turn in to a corner, it tallies exactly with the stub axle settling down onto the rebound spring. I rather like it , it gives a very planted feel once you are settled in to the turn. I would imagine that people who prefer to make continuous steering adjustments through corners might find the effect a bit unsettling as they'd be tending to come off and onto the rebound spring, maybe?