Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Why Unincorporated Clubs are no Longer a Sensible

My understanding from when I was CEO of a registered charity was that as long as my trustees "took all reasonable steps to ensure no wrong doing" there would be no liability. If someone within the organisation did something illegal it would be that person who would be liable to prosecution. There is a lot of scaremongering on the Internet and a lot of unscrupulous lawyers looking to make a fast buck.

I agree Jays, as you know I have tried with 3 area clubs, and still am but enthusiasm is waining, I have found them a bit frustrating in certain respects. Maybe it's me and I am an oddball that does not fit into the Morgan for the weekend set. TM as you say fills the gap and I have met and made friends with some great like minded people through TM at various events, so maybe this is the way it is.

I think I am beginning to understand why TM came into existence. I'm so pleased Simon got it going and continues to put time into it (3 cheers ), without it I would probably be quietly doing my own think at home by now.

I don't think it worked for me. I have always joined the owners club for every marque I've owned , some better than others, particularly where they offer a spares service and help with tracing history etc... But with Morgan it seems to be based socially around 'noggins' and weekday tea events that I could never get to if I wanted to due to work commitments. I don't really have much desire to park up in a field trying to keep both myself and other half interested whilst sat in chairs behind my car.
Now I have the MG coming I'll try their offering, from memory when I was a member of the MGOC many years ago i seem to recall a few of the members getting together now and then to help fix others cars, lend tools and other practical stuff. Morgan, no , not my scene, If I wanted to play golf then I'd join a golf club!

That's a great point Phil and it was a pleasure to meet you at the Classic car show and this works at every level whether involved with the club at a local or national basis

The one point I would make like Jays point is that there are a few who run the club who I have met who are either socially challenged or are so consumed and burdened through organising the club or event that they come over as pretty rude

I gave them the benefit of my doubt and assumed the latter

I won't mention names but they ought to lighten up have have a bit more fun

,

That sounds fine in principle and I agree, but what exactly are we supposed to be 'putting in' apart from our well earned fees? I'm all for helping others and making a contribution but the way things are at the moment I don't seem to have much opportunity to put anything in..

Hi Stewart, the events Jays eludes to have been discussed and commented on in previous posts on TM. You might like to have a read to get a better picture. I personally was not present but knowing some of those present who were snubbed, so to speak, it was more than rude. My impression was snobbishness was there in essence with respect to what was an acceptable Morgan and whether you fitted in or not. Unfortunately I have seen this at some other meetings.

TM thankfully is all inclusive to all types of Morgan and owners.

But it isnt so simple as that Peter. Being unincorporated offers some protection as well. For example a member cannot sue an unincorprated club because in law he would be suing himself. So instead he has to sue an officer who is of course protected by insurance. Or the individual member who has done him wrong.

There has been a lot of chat about this subject amongst sailing clubs and the advice given by the RYAs own barrister is that there are as many advantages as disadvantages of being unincoporated and there is no legal reason for most clubs to change. Instead clubs need to make sure they are well covered by insurance.

If you do put on big public functions then it might well be a different issue - you might then want to limit liability. As for the criminal law its silly to suggest that every member of that club could be in jail for letting the oil out - the legal process is more sensible than that. Instead they prosecute the officers which is exactly what they would do if incorporated when the officers would be the directors.

Australia has a simplified system of incorporation for non-profit clubs. It has some clearly defined obligations that are not particularly onerous, but the main benefit is the limitation of liability for members.

It is generally considered intelligent to incorporate under these rules. It seems from this discussion that such an option does not exist in the UK.

Not worth copying the whole thing but if anyone wants to look there is a summary of the rules for NSW at http://m.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/oftwwwmobile/Cooperatives_and_associations/Associations.page?

The fees are very much reduced from those of a limited liability company but there is still an obligation for filing a copy of the accounts each year. An application can be made for exemption from the obligation of audited accounts for smaller associations.

Local area meetings vary enormously. I set up the MG Owners Club meeting in my local patch in 1978, and ran it for 22 years, twice a month, and no subs. I stuck it for that long because nobody else would do it. There were times when it became cliquey - no doubt about that. There were times when we had factions at war with each other. It seems inevitable that this happens in car clubs and probably in all clubs. I packed that in in 2000, and it's still going, but I suspect the members have changed significantly.

On the other hand I tried more than once to get involved with the local MG Car Club meeting, but this was mission impossible. It was very cliquey, quite snobby, and nobody showed much interest in new attendees, so in the end I stopped trying.
I did however join the V8 Register within MGCC, and became technical rep for a number of years. The V8 Register Committee meetings were very enjoyable (most of the time), and at the annual Silverstone meeting we had a large marquee. This was really a club within a club.
The Gilbern Owners Club was small in numbers, but the regions were large and as I mentioned earlier, their Sunday lunch meetings were excellent and we were made welcome from the start.

Most Morgan natter leaders attend the NCM, and they are a decent bunch of people, all trying to do their best for the club. But sometimes you just won't gell with your local meeting. And I know from past experience that new members to the MG meetings only really became part of the proceedings after attending an 'outing' or two.

I think at our ages we are far less tolerant of others, and that makes it harder to compromise in any way, but while ever I have a Morgan I will pay my subs to MSCC. I'm having too much fun (most of the time) not to!

Obviously I know the MSCC top table well, after so many years 'in the frame'. All I will say is that when I'm blue-arsed-flying at the MOG event, I don't have time to chat until it's all done and dusted, so might appear to be 'disengaged'.